ATP: Billy Pate, head men’s tennis coach at Princeton University

<p>Episode#:19 Shaun Boyce and Bobby Schindler</p><p>ATP: Billy Pate, head men's tennis coach at Princeton University</p><p>In this episode Shaun and Bobby talk to Billy Pate who is the Head Men’s Tennis Coach at Princeton&nbsp;University</p><p>We talk about Billy's friendship with Bobby, The Atlanta Thunder, World Team Tennis, the state of college athletics and more</p><p>Shaun Boyce USPTA: shaun@tennisforchildren.com</p><p><a href="https://tennisforchildren.com/" target="_blank">https://tennisforchildren.com/</a>&nbsp;🎾</p><p>Bobby Schindler USPTA:&nbsp;<a href="mailto:schindlerb@comcast.net" target="_blank">schindlerb@comcast.net</a><a href="https://windermerecommunity.net/" target="_blank">https://windermerecommunity.net/</a>&nbsp;🎾</p><p>Geovanna Boyce:&nbsp;<a href="mailto:geovy@regeovinate.com" target="_blank">geovy@regeovinate.com</a><a href="https://regeovinate.com/" target="_blank">https://regeovinate.com/</a>&nbsp;💪🏼🏋️</p><p>This podcast is powered by GoTennis! Atlanta: Membership has its privileges 🤜🏼🎾🤛🏼</p><p>🏠&nbsp;<a href="https://letsgotennis.com/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/</a></p><p>🫶&nbsp;<a href="https://letsgotennis.com/join/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/join/</a></p><p><a href="https://shop.letsgotennis.com/" target="_blank">https://shop.letsgotennis.com/</a>&nbsp;👟👜</p><p>💰&nbsp;<a href="https://letsgotennis.com/deals/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/deals/</a></p><p><a href="https://letsgotennis.com/podcast/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/podcast/</a>&nbsp;🎙️🎧</p><p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/gotennisatlanta" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/gotennisatlanta</a></p><p><a href="https://www.instagram.com/gotennisatlanta/" target="_blank">https://www.instagram.com/gotennisatlanta/</a></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@gotennispodcast" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/@gotennispodcast</a></p><p>Do you want to read about some good things going on in the world of tennis?</p><p><a href="https://letsgotennis.com/stories/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/stories/</a>&nbsp;🔥🪑</p><p>Check out our GoTennis! Atlanta Facebook page for deals, updates, events, podcasts, news, stories, coach profiles, club information, and more&nbsp;<a href="https://bit.ly/gt_facebook_page" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/gt_facebook_page</a></p><p>Also, you can support this show (and save some $) by shopping at 🤑<a href="https://letsgotennis.com/deals/" target="_blank">https://letsgotennis.com/deals/</a>🤑</p><p>Or, donate directly&nbsp;<a href="https://paypal.me/shaunjboyce?country.x=US&amp;locale.x=en_US" target="_blank">HERE</a></p><p>Want to get into crypto? This is easy:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.coinbase.com/join/boyce_3s?src=ios-link" target="_blank">https://www.coinbase.com/join/boyce_3s?src=ios-link</a></p><p>Want donate with Bitcoin? Here’s the address: 3EqTU1gQBLoieMeFLC1BQgCUajPpPMCgwB</p><p>Considering your own podcast? We (obviously) recommend Captivate: This podcast is hosted by Captivate,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=atlantatennispodcast" target="_blank">try it yourself for free</a>.</p>
Transcript
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Welcome to the Atlanta tennis podcast.

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Every episode is titled, "It starts with tennis and goes from there."

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We talk with coaches, club managers, industry business professionals, technology experts, and

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anyone else we find interesting.

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We want to have a conversation as long as it starts with tennis.

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Hey, hey, this is Sean with the Atlanta tennis podcast, powered by Go-Tennis.

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In this episode, we talk to Billy Pate, who is the head men's tennis coach at Princeton

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University.

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We talk about his friendship with Bobby, the Atlanta Thunder, world team tennis, the state

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of college athletics, and more.

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Have a listen and let us know what you think.

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So, I'm going to do a nice simple introduction of Billy Pate.

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You are the head coach, head men's coach at Princeton University for tennis.

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That is as much as I know.

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What I want to do is say, Billy, will you introduce yourself and I'm going to let you and

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Bobby talk for a while.

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Yeah, great.

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Well, hey, I really appreciate you guys having me on and Sean is to meet you and Bobby, obviously

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it's great to catch you out after a few years here and good to see you.

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But I'm in my 11th year at Princeton as the men's coach, I've been coaching college tennis

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at a paint fair.

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Gosh, about 28, 29 years.

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So I'm getting to be one of the older guys.

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I used to be one of the younger guys in the business, but now I'm thinking one of the senior

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guys, but anyways, it's been a fun ride.

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And I just appreciate you guys having me on and anxious to talk to you and see what we can

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uncover here.

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Well, Bill, it's great seeing you too.

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It's funny.

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Sean, we always prepare questions for everybody.

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You were caught in after preparing some questions for us.

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And I told Sean, I said, I have to make this a little bit personal just because the shocking

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as you mentioned a couple of minutes ago, we've known each other more than 30 years now.

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It's a long time.

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And I tell everybody, and I don't know, if I ever told you, I just remember meeting you.

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I started, I think, a quarter before you.

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We were in grad school together, Georgia State.

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I think I started the quarter before you.

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We were in some summer class.

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I believe that's when you began.

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And I noticed this, we're having a group discussion and this, the chair coming closer and closer

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to me.

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And I look over and I see this person.

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And I said, after you said about five words, I said, oh my God, this is somebody I'm going

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to know for the rest of my life.

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And the impact when you get right to it, you sit there and say, I don't want this to be

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about me, but I got to share this.

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Billy essentially has shaped my life.

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You can sit there and say, you know, people have had an impact.

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Yes, I went to grad school.

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I want we wanted to be in the sports side of business.

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But Billy got me playing tennis again.

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Billy got me my first job in tennis.

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Through Billy, we met, you know, had great times with the Atlanta Thunder.

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Through Billy, I met great guys from Mississippi State.

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I mean, we had an apartment where five people lived.

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And there was me in four bulldogs.

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And you know, had great times personal and professionally.

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So, do you sit there and sit there?

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One person had an impact.

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I would say Billy, you probably had the biggest impact on my life outside of parents that you could

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possibly have.

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And since I pretty much enjoy my life, I want to thank you for it because it's been a fun

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ride.

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Well, that's a really, really kind body.

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I had no idea that it was to that extent.

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I just remember us being roommates in a grad school and dragging out to the tennis court.

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I decided to start getting balls again.

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I think after college, it was a little burnout.

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As you said, we were all going to be sport professional.

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That was probably not thinking I would be in the tennis space, actually.

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I really wanted to be and, you know, maybe the NFL is a PR person or even athletic administration

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be a director about athletics.

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Not that I had seen the way college athletics going.

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I wouldn't want to do that today.

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But, but our nerd dragging out of the tennis court and room was remarkable how well you could

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hit for a guy that didn't have an extensive playing background.

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And you had incredible technique.

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And so it was really fun.

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We started hitting a little bit and I think you kind of got the bug again and realized, you know,

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you're in a perfect spot.

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And so was I.

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Atlanta and I know it's still to this day.

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But I think particularly in the early 90s when you were there and that started this venture, it was

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just booming in tennis.

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I mean, you would go out and bucket and you'd meet people.

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And, you know, if you're a tennis pro, you might have the same respect as a doctor.

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He was kind of, it was kind of a strange.

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It was a unique place.

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And I know what still is.

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And without the passion for tennis.

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But yeah, that was a fun time.

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It was a great memory.

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It's funny.

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Now I saw that you guys just recently played Navy.

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And I know will Seagrave son plays on Navy and will was somebody we used to hang out with

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in Buckhead.

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And now you're coaching against his son.

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So as I owe my gosh, you have the time marches on.

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Yeah, that's funny.

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I've had so many people that I were, I guess, contemporaries of mine who all their kids are

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coming up.

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And you know, a lot of times if they're, especially if they're

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academic, they'll reach out and it's a great reason to catch up with these good friends.

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I have a talk to you in years, but their kids are of age, maybe they're looking at Ivy League

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schools, maybe not even for an athletic spot, but maybe just to, you know, just want some

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information or doing tours or I've had a lot of, you know, a kid's small junior son,

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you remember he's, he's sort of good football player.

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And if you wanted Georgia and not playing football, but he had offers to go live.

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So he did the tour.

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So it's been, it's been great to even be up here in a deep connection with a lot of friends.

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But they just go, again, shows my age of doing this long time where my friends kids are in college

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now.

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So well, talk, let's go back because it's always fun when you become a coach, people forget

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that you were on a darn good Mississippi State, Tennessee.

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Yeah, it was really fun.

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You know, when I, I actually, as you know, going to high school and start building.

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So it was sort of a natural, I went there and ended up when when I first started, we weren't

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great, you know, we were, I think building a pretty good team.

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And then, you know, by the time I left, we were a really good team, pretty much a top 10 team.

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And then from that point on, you know, Mississippi State's been really super competitive

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nationally in Tennessee.

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And a lot of French guys came, in fact, again, going back one of the guys I picked up

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the airport, my, uh, January, my senior who helped us really make that push to be great.

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His son came a work for me, you know, last couple of years.

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So, um, and he's in coaching, so it's funny.

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But yeah, we were, it was a great, uh, great program.

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It was really fun.

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And, um, like I said, then I, you know, wanted to get a master's and that's how we met and

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moved Atlanta.

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And, um, it was a great time to be there.

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And, um, you know, and of course we had the pro League in Atlanta at the time too, which was

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really successful.

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So it kind of got me back in the tennis after kind of a little bit of how you know, because I,

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like I said, I was sort of burnout.

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We had such a good program.

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But I was like, you know, I'm not going to go for, I did play a few pro events, but I'm just going

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to focus on my career and up.

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And then I sort of Atlanta drug me back in the tennis to be honest with you.

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So it's really cool.

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Well, shut the first time we played, again, to talking about the old days of Atlanta, Billy's

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like, well, I live out here.

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Where did you look what exit to do live off of when we first, the first department you had?

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Yeah, Northridge exit on Dunwoody.

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Yeah, I go on up Georgia 400 has before the toll was even there.

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You know, you had to enter, I think, 400 North there, right at the top end of the perimeter

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in Sandy's spring.

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Yeah.

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So I had been in Atlanta six months.

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I had never been outside the perimeter until then.

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So he was the apps, you know, I heard about OTP.

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And when I went to see Billy, I was like, where in God are we, you know, to my buddy

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of mine that I went to TCU with who is the one who was my introduction to Atlanta.

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He lived in town.

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So I was very familiar with in town.

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And the first time I went out.

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And I remember we were going to hit and I went out with my Prince 110 aluminum and Billy looked

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at him and said, oh, my God, it has been a long time since you played.

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And immediately gave me two of his rockets out of his bag.

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He said, here, keep these young.

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So immediately, you know, the kindness was was very well evident.

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And then obviously, so we could even, you brought up Kent Small.

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So Atlanta Thunder was another fun, very tessoring into experience for all of us.

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Yeah, that was great.

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You know, again, that's probably what really drew me back into Tune.

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They had a, they had an opening for like a facility manager operations director and, you know,

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working for the world's ink to this.

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And I'm sure it's the same today.

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But it's like working for a mindily baseball team.

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And you do a little bit of everything.

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Which is actually really cool.

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Like if you go work in professional sports or an intern, you're probably in a very specific space

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where, you know, working there and, you know, Kent Senior, the owner of the Atlanta Thunder

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at the time, he also did a cup of high reclostic.

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That was also kind of his bread and butter with it was a one day basketball double header

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and it used to be in the, where the Hawks played the alomni.

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And then it became in the Georgia dough.

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And it's crazy to think the Georgia dough is gone now.

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It's a Mercedes, you know, so, but yes, that was a really fun time getting a chance to do anything.

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And if you, what I really valued about that experience is, you know, got to get back

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in Tune us, but also Kent Senior was, if you, even if you're an intern or, you know,

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a first year employee, if you had an idea, marketing idea, promotional idea, a lead on a corporate

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sponsorship, which we obviously all needed.

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He was all ears.

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We'd, we'd spend many hours at the old beer mug and it was not there anymore, but I'll

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piece tree road there.

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That was amazing play.

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I was, I was really sad when I heard that close years back, but we'd have our meetings linked

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to the night there, brainstorming ideas and the funny thing about the thunder, we actually

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joked it.

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It became, you know, thunder became synonymous with rain because every time I really felt

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bad for Kent, you know, he had put his money into this.

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And it was hard enough to draw for all of us to watch tennis in Atlanta, which seems countering

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to it, a bit of obvious, you know, even with the AT&T challenge for many years.

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And of course, the event that's the truest event that Edigens Allis is run for many years.

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I know he just, kind of retired from that movie to a different venture, but he did a great job.

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But I know it's a challenge in Atlanta.

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You have to have the, the marquee names to really get people to come because we always

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said that people want to play tennis in Atlanta more than they want to watch unless you have a marquee

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name.

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Um, 50 in the world doesn't always attract the fans in Atlanta, but we had that issue.

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Of course, we had legends like we had never to lower play for years with a thunder and

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board came in and had some really fun with them working with them.

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And we were drawing well when it didn't rain.

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But there was a remember just being, for two seasons of row, I think, you know, more than

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50 percent of the matches would get rain in the summer.

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You know, it'd be a seven o'clock Tuesday night in Atlanta.

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All of a sudden that the showers would come and it was very bad time you're in fortunate.

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But those were really fun times.

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What it was, sometimes it was like he's done coughs running around.

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They were painted trying to find another venue or what we were going to do.

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But it was a really, really fun time in my life.

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For sure.

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It was in your right.

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I mean, you think about when I first got to Atlanta, I swore because of the summers of

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94 and 95 that as you said, every day at five o'clock, it just rained.

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Yeah.

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I mean, 95 was horrible.

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And then because my brother came down and my belly got my brother in internship at with the

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thunder.

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So my parents came down to visit us and literally we were inside the entire time they were here

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because it rained.

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So the at night, summer of 95, yes, was absolutely horrendous when it came to the weather,

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which made it to any of the, and you brought up an interesting point because I don't

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think the smalls get enough credit because they really started to get a lot of credit.

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That trend with the cup and homework class, as well.

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You know, that weekend before Christmas basketball term, it UCLA co-opted NBC took it over.

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But you know, they were the first ones to do it.

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And it was a great, great thing.

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Yeah, Ken had some great marking ideas and you know, things sometimes work for reasons,

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sometimes they don't.

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Obviously, this is well before social media.

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What could we have done with social media?

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You know, but what was cool though is I remember the last year that I was involved with a

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cup and hymer.

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And the Olympics were on the way.

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And that was one of the exciting, you know, then we go back.

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That's when I moved to Atlanta, I'm sure you thinking the same thing coming from TCU, the Olympics

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would already been announced clearly year before.

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Everybody was building torn deal.

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And I think we tend to forget how big that buildup was.

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Everybody wanted to be in Atlanta in sports and work for A.

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K.I. which was the Olympic Committee for Atlanta games.

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And it was, it was really funny.

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I did a little side note here that I think people might find humors.

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You know, with my name was very close to the guy that would you be a director of the

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Olympic Games, which would be a billion paint.

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You know, of course he was that top guy at the, at the masters that club there and

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Gusta.

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And, but I would call people to try to get maybe a corporate sponsorship for the

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thunder or the company class that can, and I would be patched right through because the, the receptionist

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wouldn't understand to you would think I'm Billy Payne when said Billy Payne.

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So I just started kind of saying my last name really quick and hoping they did think I was

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really painted.

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Many times when I was your pain, I would put you right through and I would say that's easy.

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So that was, I was a funny thing back down there.

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It was quite a time though, but the buildup was great with the Olympics on the way and

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just everybody, I think it really put Atlanta to, I mean, obviously when you, you host the Olympic

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Games, that's a, that's a major international venue, but, but it really what, it put, Atlanta

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sports on the map and so many good things happened after that.

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And, Sean, you have to, we were so involved because we were in grad school, we had, we created

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a program with the sports council of Atlanta where we essentially did all the logistics for

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each monthly sports council meeting.

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Plus we had all of our fellow students in various internships, in very, so we were the guys to know,

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you know, you want to tickets, you want to defeat this one, we knew somebody everywhere

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as Billy said plus that was like, what 90, obviously the brave's were in the world series

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or playoffs every year.

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I think that was 95, first Super Bowl that came to Atlanta, which was the Cowboys, which

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built in our big Cowboy fans.

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So we were excited to have the Cowboys here in the Super Bowl.

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So that time that Atlanta, in our age group was a blast and just being part such a part of

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it, you know, we knew everybody, but we knew the head of the sports council was a friend

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who'd go out with us.

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It was, it was a really, really great time.

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Our other roommate Craig Hoover who's still at Vice President of Live Nation, you know, he

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was with ProServe and then who bought them, what was the radio, can go on with the

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bought ProServe?

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I know then Live Nation bought them, but there was another entity in between.

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But Craig's been with them 30 years.

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Yeah, yeah, really cool.

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The people we met and what they're doing in sports and you know, the other thing that's

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kind of interesting and this was more, you, you studied to be a sports professional.

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That was a start of it.

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You know, really, I mean, obviously, you know, Ohio, you, I think, was the first, you know,

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in the US, it had a, a master's in sports administration sports management, what have you.

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And, um, but a lot of more door-by-peed departments, but, you know, you're just a,

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did a really good job of attracting some of the top, uh, budding sports professionals.

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And that's what drew us to Atlanta.

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And that was such a good time.

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And now it's a little bit different.

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I think people are getting more specific with the spaces they study.

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Maybe you see more of a trend.

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The guys go get an MBA to work in major league baseball or what, but we really studied

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for, I mean, it wasn't as common back then.

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It was more, um, I remember telling my, my grandmire team, I'm going to study sports

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administration as a master, it's like, what is that PE?

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Right?

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No, not exactly.

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And it, my grandmire, like it's there, you're going to be a coach.

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I'm like, no, no, more than a coach, you know, no, I'm going to coach for a long time.

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But it's, it's funny.

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But if you do have to even coach, you need to understand all that, um, the size of what's

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going on in college and pro sports, it's super important, I think.

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Again, we could, you and I personally, we could talk forever.

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So let's go.

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You are timeline coaching your first coaching job, Georgia perimeter of my correct?

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that's another sad when they go back down the very land, you know, that was a really beautiful

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campus.

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You know, since then, I think you guys know it's been absorbed, I believe, by Georgia State.

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That happened.

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I don't know roughly about five or six years ago.

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And, you know, I think it's a little bit sad too from the community colleges have really

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decreased.

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And, you know, they're, um, you look back and what community colleges did for a lot of students.

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And maybe couldn't afford school.

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And, um, it was, I really sort of again, going back, I sort of backed into coaching.

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I wasn't, that's the not what I was looking to do.

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But I just finished my master's.

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I was offered a position there to teach in the, as an adjective, professor in the, um, in the

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P department.

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And, but, um, and also cooks the tennis team.

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And it wasn't a lot of money.

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So I, you know, get a chance to mentor a lot of young, up and coming college coaches today.

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And, you know, there, there are different, there's such a different generation.

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They're expecting a lot of money.

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And, there, you can make a little money in tennis, but not a whole while.

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You're not going to get super wealthy.

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But, but they're demanding good salaries.

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And they're getting them.

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And I remember starting out what I was making a Georgia perimeter was more of a stipend, like

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coaching a high school team.

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And, but I've made decent money teaching.

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Like, like we all did.

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And, um, but I was probably, you know, running around, you know, 60, 70 hours a week

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working, but a lot that we were young.

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We could do it.

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But that was my first gig.

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And I really, um, in terms of coaching college.

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And, um, but the good part about it had a beautiful facility.

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You know, there was, there was a spread out over Atlanta.

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But I was at the Dunwoody campus.

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We had 10 courts.

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Um, you know, we could run out to programs.

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We could run, um, all kind of instruction.

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I had some of my guys would get out of practice and go help with the junior academy there.

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That we had.

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I mean, there was so many good things going.

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So it was a great location to be.

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And so I, I, I, I, I really backed with great fondness.

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But it got me going to want to coach.

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And we, then we ended up my last, I was here five years.

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My last three years.

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We were fortunate to win the national title in the last three years.

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And so, um, and then at that point, I was 30.

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And I was like, well, I really like doing this.

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I don't want to coach out of for 40 hours.

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We just to pay the bills, you know, I'd rather do this 100%.

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And, um, and, you know, I sort of bypassed all the other, you know, career paths.

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I might have had and just said, you know, I'm all in on this.

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And so, and then I got an offer to go to another name to be the assistant and, um, work for an incredible guy who's probably like main mentor and, you know, life now.

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You know, coach Bales and, um, it was a great experience there.

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Yeah.

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I think that I think speaks volumes, too, that that was a great decision where somebody in your position coming off three national championships.

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We worked with somebody who, you know, shot a little higher.

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You were smart enough to go as an assistant.

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And you say, how long were you at Notre Dame?

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Two years.

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Yeah.

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Two years.

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So, I mean, that was a great.

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And then on to Alabama.

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Yeah.

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Then 10 years at Alabama.

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And then, uh, now 11 years here.

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Yeah.

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Oh, Lord, we are old.

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God.

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I remember when you just remember we were excited to, but now, Obama was building the new facility.

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Oh my God.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I've been through a lot of facility construction that seemed Alabama.

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We did two different venues.

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We did an outdoor first, right after I arrived.

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And then we did an indoor, which is actually a funny story.

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And I'll give it a go.

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And then we're building a nice facility here in New facility.

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And we, um, everything, you know, and that they kind of happen for the same reason.

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Both that Alabama and Princeton that you do construction, you start to get sprawl or you just

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like a city does or you need more space.

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But it was funny that the story of Alabama when I, uh, what's saving came in, um, everybody

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was excited.

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Obviously, I think we saw the opportunity that, um, the statement was going to bring Alabama,

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kind of been down in the dumps a little bit on probation and football.

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And, and as you know, and I'm talking to the college, too, let's go.

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But any, any coach in that department would say, hey, look, we need football to be the driver

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here.

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I mean, that's, especially a place like Alabama with a tradition.

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And I was all in on that as well.

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So we had a four-court indoor facility, Alabama, which was one of the earlier indoor facilities

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in college tennis.

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It was built in 83 with the old coach Ray Perkins's wife loved tennis.

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So she went to the present.

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It was able to get that.

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It shared space with the indoor football complex at Alabama.

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And it was a really high route.

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So you could actually ponder it.

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So you imagine the tennis.

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It was, you could, you couldn't really hit the ceiling in a lot that it was a pretty cool

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four-court venue.

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But a massive wall, and on the other side, there was a football practice football field, turf

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field.

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And it stopped in the five-year-old line when it hit that wall.

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And then the other side went through the end zone.

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So technically it was like 105 yards, not 120.

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Well, saving does his first tour in the venue.

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And they're showing around.

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He's been obviously well received or shown that the facilities like, hey, what do we need to do?

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And he's walking through the start.

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And he likes it.

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But he gets to the wall and goes, what's on the other side of this wall?

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And they say, well, it's indoor bar 3 tennis.

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He goes, in nicely, I think he goes, move them, give them something, but move them.

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But you know, and I would take a look at the same in a day.

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And this was a great thing because he probably knew.

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He needed his face, but also we needed our face.

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And so we got to build a new six-quarter indoor, which is beautiful.

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And we did that before I left there.

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But yeah, really cool how these things happen.

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And then saving a prince right now, they wanted to build a residential college.

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We need to increase a role in a little bit.

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Everybody lives on campus.

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And it's just kind of tied on.

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So we're moving across the lake on a beautiful space and we're under construction now on

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an indoor out.

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We're then you hear this going to be state of the art.

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So I was going to see how these things work and you sort of roll with it and maybe you get

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something better and so it's good.

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It's always good.

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It might last tangent because we're going to have her on tomorrow without Billy.

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I don't be PMJ.

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And those initials were infamous back in the day.

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And now she's somebody that don't business with and know and grown close with the family over

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the years.

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And we'll get her to speak to you about you a bit tomorrow.

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But again, another impact player in my life and another close friend of ours CD.

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We had a great year last year.

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Bulldogs, one of their college baseball world series and TCU.

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Well, we know what happened to TCU.

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But at least they made it to the finals, which you know,

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considering where they started from when I was a freshman where they didn't,

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I think they won one game to make into the National Championship game.

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That was enough for me.

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So but through Billy and that PMJ too.

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So it's Billy's been very instrumental as we got over.

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Billy, we were in college athletics.

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You've been doing it for 25, 27 years now.

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Tell us what do you feel about the state of college athletics with the landscape changing with NIL,

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transfer portal, conference realignment, obviously NIL had a big impact on TCU's success.

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So I wanted to do a has it affecting tennis in a positive way and what is some of the fallbacks.

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Yeah, I mean, I think it's very, and unless you're living under rock.

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I mean, we've had seismic changes in college athletics.

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And it really triples down into effects every program.

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You know, whatever program you are, you've got to have to feel volleyball, you know,

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softball doesn't matter.

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And particularly, the way you call ourselves Olympics,

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sports or non-revenue sports, you know, I think one of the biggest things.

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That's all really good article yesterday about the,

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a lot of people, and this is all phases of life,

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us blaming the pandemic for things.

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Okay, and I think college athletics is probably one of the biggest violated that.

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You saw programs being dropped and not just college tennis programs,

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but a lot of non-revenue programs because we a lot of administrators,

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a point frankly freaked out and they thought, okay, we're going to lose so much during the pandemic.

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And yeah, there was some there was some losses, but I think they could have mitigated those loss.

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They could have found other ways to keep programs, you know, like Minnesota and Iowa,

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Minston, a straw and they were in good shape.

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They were a very strong program to obviously the big ten.

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And that's really sad.

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And I know, you know, you get more and sometimes a time when I'm discussion,

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but I think there's ways to, you know, people come to the table and figure out what's what.

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But yeah, I think it's really interesting with a portal,

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just looking at a college basketball right now, we're entering the final four.

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There's teams that maybe we a lot of the commentators have made a point that.

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These mid-major teams like a Florida Atlantic, you know, creating some of these that are really new.

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Well, maybe they're actually the ones that are benefiting from the portal more.

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Because sometimes you think it's going to be the bigger schools.

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But a lot of the kids, the athletes, and this could be in tennis as well.

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They come to the power of the first, maybe it doesn't work out, maybe it's not all it's cracked up to the yobl.

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All the bells are whistled with facilities and funding and travel and all these things for you.

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But maybe you're not playing or maybe the coaches are a little bit too much for you.

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Whatever it may be.

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And so you see kids just jumping into the portal.

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You know, from our standpoint, we don't have that problem for the most far to Princeton.

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Because once you get into Princeton, that's kind of your, you know, say, milkshake.

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But you value that opportunity you get in an Ivy League institution.

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You're not generally going to transfer.

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Now, what we had is we couldn't play.

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There's an Ivy policy where you can't do graduate school in the Ivy and play intercollegiate athletics.

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So when everybody got this code year, all of that got two guys playing for you in C right now.

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They were talking to team.

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They're doing great for them.

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We'd love to have them.

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It's kind of sad to watch them flourish in another place.

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But that's just kind of been in reality.

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Some of the basketball players that you know, start in Princeton's last week, 16 team.

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If they want, they've got that COVID year.

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They're graduating this year.

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They can go somewhere else that we have a player of Michigan in fact on the basketball team.

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So it's happening in all that it is just obviously that's going to go away.

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So that's going to cycle through without extra year that COVID granted those athletes.

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But the back to the, the bigger issue, you know, I just think we're,

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everybody's putting money into football as you know.

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And a place like here is TCU, they're doing really well.

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And then that money can come and support all the other programs.

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But what the argument is and you know this, like if you have a football team that's trying to compete at the top level,

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but you're not really the Alabama that will have states,

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the LSU's, the claims that really have the money that's drawing a lot of faith,

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it could be a money loss for you, obviously.

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And then that impacts all the non-revenue sports.

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So for us, and I put the colors, Tennessee, and with all these other non-revenue sports,

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I mean, we're trying to find our place.

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We're trying to do things. We call as Tennessee preserve what we have,

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but also build and try to think a little bit more innovatively in terms of how we can promote ourselves more.

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And be, you know, valuable in an department's eyes and not be on the shopping block, you know.

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And I think if we keep going to where it's just football and basketball days,

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that's a sad story to tell. And that's not why we have college athletics.

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So anyway, I get off of my little tangent there myself,

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but I firmly believe what all the coaches and non-revenue sports are doing,

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and maybe without the limelight. And I think there's a lot of things we're concerned about in college athletics.

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So we need to sort of rally around and protect and also think creatively about how we're going to operate in the future.

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Well, I think the good part is,

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through challenges, comm innovation. And I think a lot of the non-revenue producing sports

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have had to get a little more creative to create revenue, to get people to come out.

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And it helps the entire college experience. So you have an interesting background that you've been in in Alabama.

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And now you're at an Ivy League school. Obviously, big difference.

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Speak to some of the differences between those two entities.

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Yeah, yeah, I think they are very different, but they're also a lot more similar than people think.

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I mean, there's their own sort of tradition. Alabama is a big brand.

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Princeton's a big brand. So how do you leverage those brands?

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And I think what the thing is with Princeton, I think you, from an athletic, just a purely athletic standpoint,

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what we just did in mince basketball is tremendous. And women's basketball won't want to game too.

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They've been very good. And that's really visible as well. But for the mince team to make this week 16,

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everybody kind of rallies around March madness with these smaller teams, right?

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I don't say smaller, mid major. They know the ones that don't why have all the resources.

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I think that's really interesting. But that really moves the needle.

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Where there's maybe a few more opportunities to move the needle if you're Alabama,

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you know, athletically. I can, typically, it speaks for ourselves, I think. But,

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the difference is I think with tennis, it's not as much because tennis players in general,

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we recruit. Just like the guys in the crude Alabama, I recruit a lot of smart guys. I had guys

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making incredible GPAs doing doing wonderful things. Certainly, maybe their degree isn't as strong.

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It doesn't have the brand of an academic brand of a Princeton. So there's that.

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I think the biggest difference is the people that you're surrounded by academically.

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Obviously, nobody gets into an Ivy League institution without a serious intellectual curiosity,

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or, you know, showing a lot of ability academically and a desire,

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scholastically, to really achieve. So that's probably the biggest difference. But everybody around

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our student athletes are very interested in the subject matter for the most part.

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They're not going to just slack off and they can't or else they're, you know, they be out of here, right?

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So that's probably the biggest thing. I think, and it's a bigger school. It's a big state school,

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versus a private university. But I do love the fact that our guys are truly student athletes.

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I don't, again, I don't think we had that problem. I don't think that problem exists as much in

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college tennis. Does it exist in other sports? The revenue sports, yes, of course. I mean,

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we made it where it's like, it's just so much of an entry into a pathway to professional sports.

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And I think I still maintain amateurism ideology. I really believe in it. I know that it was

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grade 20, 30 years ago. And it's, I don't know, it's even grading more. I mean, where we're paying athletes

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by this in I.L. And so, and it's not like we can't do that. It, like, for instance, it's very much

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available to us. And we obviously have some very supportive donors who have the means or resources,

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the connections and the business world that we could, we are. We do have a lot of athletes,

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you know, taken advantage of an I.L. I don't think there anywhere near what some of the power

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five deals are, but it's helpful. So I think that's the big difference. Obviously, we don't do

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scholarships in the Ivy League at Lennox scholarship. So, but the financial age really good. And so,

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when when you look at minstens, there's only 4.5 scholarships minst baseball. There's only 11.7.

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You could still have a roster just like our baseball coach could have a roster and our 10th

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team of where we could actually be exceeding that 4.5 and scholarships with a amount of financial

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aid we're giving out if we're getting the right guy. And we have some of the means that don't need

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the financial aid, but it could work both way. So it's actually a very fair process. I think it's

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hard on some of the source to recruit when you don't have an athletic scholarship daughter. It's not

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as hard to tennis though. And recruiting, probably if I can jump in and recruiting is one thing,

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because that's you looking at the potential players. I had an 11 year old, 12 year old boy come to me

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recently and he said, hey, coach Sean, do you think I can get into Harvard? And I thought, well,

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I don't know anything about your educational abilities or your intellectual abilities or your grades.

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I don't know anything about that. I just found out that he's playing tennis and he's a beginner.

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This is not a good tennis player. He's a beginner and he's just getting started, but he's playing tennis

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because he believes that on his college resume, so to speak on his applications, that adds to

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his ability to get into that type of school. And then he came in the next week, he said, you know what?

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I changed my mind, coach Sean. I'm thinking it's Duke. I'm thinking Duke is now my target.

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And I said, well, that's great. My step daughter just graduated from Duke and said, oh my gosh,

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can you please go ask her how she did it? And the question is, how do you do that? Is your

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if you're young? I mean, yeah, if you're a nine year old, you're top 10 in the country,

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play in tennis. You got a good chance you're already thinking about college tennis. But if you're

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an 11 or 12 year old and you're thinking about going to a school like Princeton, is it recruiting the

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matters or is that 12 year old who may not necessarily be on the team, have that still have that chance.

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Is his ability to play tennis on his college application? Is that helpful at a school like Princeton?

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Or if you're not going to play college tennis, they really doesn't matter.

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No, I think everything's helpful. I wouldn't, but you could substitute tennis with golf or fencing

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recreationally or playing the piano or violin. We obviously a lot of the kids that do enter

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Princeton are very much skilled in the arts, if you will. We have so many guys I've had on my

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teams here that play one or two or three or four instruments. It's crazy. Speak many languages. So I think

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diversifying your resume as much as possible as good tennis would be one component of it. I tell

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there's a lot of kids that try to get in on their own without our support. We get supported opportunities

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each year where we can have a number of guys we can list that we will help support for admissions.

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Obviously, lower than what students are not athletes getting in, but they give it up so much

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of their life to be a certain level in a sport. The level in tennis has gotten to be for the

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IVs. It's so hot that I would argue we have this conversation all the time. I told parents that

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their kids are maybe eight, nine, ten years old. They're trying to figure out a pathway for their

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kid. I can't tell them what's hard. It may cause you may have injuries. You can be really

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good in tennis and actually when you're 14. But by the time you're 16, what if you kind of follow up a little

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bit, all of a sudden, you know, now you put all this time into it. Maybe you sacrifice some grades because

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of your traveling all the time. Most of our guys are traveling all around the US or even all around the

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globe to pursue their tennis dreams. A lot of them go into the online education route or hybrid route

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to give them the flexibility to miss and classes. But they have to maintain that. So it's a hard

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thing to do. I think tennis is one of the hardest to go all in on tennis and decide, okay, I'm going

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to try to get to XYZ school academically because of my tennis, especially understanding of

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standard or what we need when all these other things could happen. So what we've actually done

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on your point, like a lot of guys were recruiting never thought about IVs. They weren't they didn't

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have that dream. They just we actually, and I'm going to say we talk them into it. But we basically

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start seeing these kids during their junior high school or maybe right after the sophomore high school.

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And we get their grades or we kind of understand like they weren't looking at IVs, but we're like,

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wow, you could get in if you want to. And then those, but they weren't thinking IVs and we're thinking

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mostly tennis, but they happen to be smart enough. So those are kind of the ones we're seeking, not the

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ones that from age, whatever they're coming out of the room and they're all of a sudden, a parent,

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like you're going to an IV, you know, I don't, you know, there's two competitive now. There's

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so many people leveraging whatever skills they have in every area of life to get in the certain schools.

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And so and then the applications are through the room. So again, not to get off point, but it's

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really competitive. And it's it's fun. I've got admissions people have a really tough job because they want

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a much a really diverse pool. And it's like we do, I will say this, it's like building a team with

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they, they want, they have, you know, early action here, like early decisions are made in the fall.

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And then obviously they take, I think around roughly half the class and then they, they'll take the

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rest coming up here, I believe, you know, about now where the regular decision. And so once they get the

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fall in myths, they kind of know what those look like and then how do they pair them on campus with

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all of these, these people. So I think it's, it's like building a team you want certain cultures,

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you want certain characters, you want people from all over from different walks of life. They bring

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something unique to the university. And you don't want all of one thing. And our team is not all

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of one thing. Nor is our basketball team or football team, which I think is really cool. And it's,

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I think it's more broad and diverse than it's ever been, which I think is really neat.

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And the good part is, I mean, if you look at your, you're still enjoying successes on the court,

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just, you know, despite you look at the races and, you know, the, even Georgia Tech,

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they're always complaints well, we have to maintain our grades and stuff to put the same football

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team out there. You guys are, had the GPA and you're being, you're very successful.

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Yeah, no, it's great. And I think people fail to recognize that I remember taking a history of

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American sports classes and undergrad. And, you know, the Ivy's really were at the, you know,

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they were really the pioneers with college athletics as they are today. You know, it was more of a

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a privileged group to play athletics. You know, it was truly an amateurism idea at the time.

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And that's why they maintain this idea of no athletic scholarships because they wanted to keep the

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focus on student athlete. And I think it's great. We have, um, I think roughly 130 to 140

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faculty members that are assigned to not the assigned to teams, but if we have, if you look at

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our, my coaching page, there's a bunch of other people in there, not only my assistant coaches,

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but faculty members, it's a portus to become mentor. So it is a, is a former athletic director

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to develop this, um, you know, sort of program many years ago. And it just, you could imagine a school

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like Princeton where some professors may not want them missing class or why are you playing

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Interplay, John, at Linux at this level. But they can go on road trips. They become mentors to our

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athletes. And when you have now 130, 140 of these faculty members across 38, 39 sports,

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it's really cool. They start to see, wow, they have 20 plus hours a week toward your sport.

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Hots are doing what all the non-apply through doing. And that's, I think they respect that. So

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so it's truly, um, I think the amateurism is well in a live here. I don't know that it is elsewhere,

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but for our guys to be able to achieve that, it's really cool. But the one thing that's helping us

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is, and tennis in general, like people want a great education. Most of the tennis players

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we recruit, even the ones that want to go, I mean, they maybe could or they're smart enough if they wanted to.

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And we don't lack for good recruits. And I think everybody wants the best to do it.

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Bobby, when you and I grew up in a shallow same view, and your parents, by the way, they just go

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get a college education, maybe. And they didn't, they weren't, maybe, as focused on, hey, you have to

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get an elite level, I get to make education. And now I feel like there's a lot of pressure. I feel

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that for kids, got a lot of pressure on where they go to school. And let's be honest, a lot of the

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parents want to say their kid went to XYZ, versus what's best for that individual.

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Okay, my parents go, I just hope Sean continues with his school because I, I didn't enjoy school

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personally. It wasn't fun for me. For me, it was, it was so show that it was tennis. It was soccer.

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It was all the things I was doing. But then I remember getting into college and I remember the other

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kids, I say, like the regular kids, right, the non-athletes. And they were complaining, they just

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didn't have enough time to finish their work and they couldn't keep up with their studies. I looked

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and I said, and you don't play a college sport. Like, how can you possibly not have time to handle

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all this? I just remember being an athlete and knowing just the schedule was so structure. It was

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so good for us. We didn't have much time to forget to do something or to just sit around and all

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of sudden realize I was late with something. We had so many other pressures and so many other things

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going on. Pushing to say, I'm going to get this done or I don't make it to my 5A and work out or I don't

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make it to this. And it was just, you got the things done. It was just how it was for the student

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athletes. And I always just never understood the non-student athletes that didn't seem to have time

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for everything they needed to do. Right. You know, the, the, the, the makes me think it's kind of funny.

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I've said this before. And one of the reasons I was really interested in Princeton, you know,

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I've always said, and Bobby's known this for a long time. I've always had a fascination of New York City

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and living New New York. And if I ever had the opportunity to do what I'm doing at the highest level

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and and live close to New York or in New York, it'd be great. And when Princeton opened up

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a school that I wanted to pursue it and I did. But also there were a couple of things to work.

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You know, we had, we had some, as I said, really smart guys at Alabama and they, they could make a

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three, four and they could still go out five nights a week. And I'm like, hmm, they're having a lot of fun.

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They're chasing the girls or doing what they want. It shouldn't be that easy. You know, and,

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I was, I was probably one of the worst in college. You know, I was, you know, having too much fun

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was in a frad and as Bobby knows. And, and I, but I didn't want that experience exactly from my

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student athlete. You know, one of the more serious approach. And well, guys, I could,

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I could trust to do the right thing. And not like we didn't have about that. But, you know, I think here

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the guys are just too busy. It's too rigorous. It's sort of like what you're saying, Sean, the time

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management comes essential. And you know, the old ad, if you want something done, give it to a busy person.

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And I tell our guys at all the time, you know, when they think they're sort of like going up against it

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academically or, and I'm sleeping enough and they just have to manage it a little bit better.

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And sometimes they need to take a step back, take a day off, you know, from tennis or take a day of

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from whatever and just focus on this, get some rest. And then we have to do that occasionally. But,

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it's really cool how they're able to manage that. And if you really add up the hours of the day,

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assuming you're sleeping eight hours and, you know, you still have 16 hours and maybe four hours as tennis.

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But what else are you doing? You're not in class that much is like two or three hours a day. So,

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what they do outside of classes, the most important thing, are they playing video games? Probably not that much here.

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And that's, so they just have a lot less idle time. And so they're able to, you know,

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focus on what's important and hopefully for us, that's just, you know, school and tennis.

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Well, you're doing a good job. What's it look like this year for NCAs?

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We're in the bubble right now. We've got a big match with Penn. We start Ivy League play on Saturday

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and we are really right. I mean, we've missed an opportunity last week before last year on Spring Break in San Diego.

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There's a really good tournament we play with eight teams. We were in the last day. We were playing

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Virginia Commonwealth, which is actually a really good team of ranked, ranked roughly around 30.

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We're in the 40s of the time of, we were two points for winning and at rain. You know, California's

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had an enormous amount of rain this year has been really tough for them. I know, but it did

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it up, you know, we were joking if we didn't play the national anthem. We were to go to it in. And so as it turned out,

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we both had red eyes at night because we had to get back, you know, fly out Sunday night, get back

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for a class of Monday morning. And so neither team could stay next to your day. So we waited to

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talk about seven o'clock in night. We both both team had to head to the airport. So we didn't get to finish

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the match. It was like a no contest. That would have been a big one for us. But anyway, we, that,

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we were going to make up that match with somebody else. And, but we need to kind of, probably,

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if we don't win the league, obviously, if you win the league, you automatically get a bit. Last year,

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it was pretty unprecedented. I believe the first time in history for them eight men's teams in

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tennis made the incident of a game with us being one of them. So it's got to be, I can said,

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incredibly strong league. So we'll see. We've got some work to do. We've got a young team. We

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lost five seniors. I can mention a few of them are playing different places. So we've got four guys coming

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that you're only two in the fall. So we're, we're building something special. We feel like and we're

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we're excited. Yeah, especially with the new facility coming. Yeah. Well, it's, we've talked about

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because I have a player that I coached South Forsyth who was very interested. And I said, well,

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if you spoke to the coach, and they always get impressed. I said, well, do you want me to call them?

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And they, their eyes light up. And they're like, well, what you know, I'm like, well, yeah,

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we were roommates. You want me to call. And he told me, said, well, I can't get in right now. I have 11 plus

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UTR. And that's not good enough at Princeton. So it's, you know, you're obviously getting the players.

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Yeah, but again, that's just happening with the number. It's not, and I think it's like anything

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in line. It's like, when you, if you don't, if you apply for a job, and you don't get a job, you know,

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you're, we're all thinking, gosh, what did I do wrong? Or what did, why am I, what are my short

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and, you know, unfortunately, the answer isn't yes, very often for a lot of recruits who made one

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of common. That's unfortunate just like the admissions process. But it's not really that person to take

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it personally as much as who you're being compared against. And maybe this person's a better fit

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for a job or for this particular team or particular university. So, you know, I think it's just hard for

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anybody to see that. But yeah, we're, we're getting really good players. We're very fortunate.

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And we, we, we, we've, we like to tell this. We've been number one in undergraduate education for

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last 11 years. U.S. News report. You know, because we're, Princeton's, right, unique. It's focused

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on, it's not really known as much for the master's programs, a grad program, to professional school.

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We don't really have, we don't have a business school, law school or med school. It's all focused on the

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undergrad, really. And so that's why you're first four years here, which is when you're playing tennis

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for us. It's great. And, and so that's a lot of what we talk about. But it's very unique. But yeah,

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it's been a great selling point. But all the hobbies have a great selling point to financial aid

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for all these universities as grown. So, for some people who may be think, okay, they know how

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for athletic scholarships, I won't be able to afford to go. If they can get in, they're likely to qualify

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because the financial aid packages are so generous. They want, I feel like they want to give them

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out to the right of people. It's just a matter of them justifying it. And obviously getting in,

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depending whether that's athletics or without athletics. Sure. And I know we're getting close on Tom

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Billy. I, I want to say thanks again. This is a person who's been such a big impact on my life.

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I still quote by various Billy Pace when you're breaking down a match. Billy told me,

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"Look, 40, honestly, if competing over 10% of the match, we can start in the beginning 45%

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going to each side. I try to tell my players that I remember when I went into high performance.

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I call Billy Sibilia. I've been coaching high performance. What do I do? Billy, you know,

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sat down, sent me a list of what I still have of drills to use specifically more high

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performance oriented. But emphasize that the high performance is in the situation in the effort, not

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any magical drill. So such a huge part of my life. I'm going to call Junior and let him know

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that Penn's playing this weekend. Maybe he'll send you a text and start a little rivalry there.

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And again, thanks for coming on next time. We'll spend a little bit more time on the good times.

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Because I still love the big bike stories. And we have to make an origin story that at some point.

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I can't take credit. That's a Hoover. But we had a lot of good times. And thank you for spending

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time with us today. Sean, take it away with our last question.

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We've got one question we like to ask everyone. And I've been looking forward to this one a lot

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because of your experience. You know Atlanta. And Bobby, you probably know why we're asking a question

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like this. But I want to give it to you. If you were King of tennis for a day or however long

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for a certain thing, whether it's college tennis, social tennis, professional tennis,

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tennis of the universe, whatever it is, you were King of tennis. Is there any one thing or is there

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anything you would change or adjust to make tennis better for anyone in any way. You get King of

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tennis. You get one thing you can do. What would it be? Yeah, I think you guys have seen the

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success of the labor cop. I think the problem and Bobby said this many years ago, he remembers like

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everything I said. Even if it was beat us, he seems to remember everything I said back in the day.

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Maybe too many adult beverages. But Bobby always said, you know, we're two folks in tennis

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on promoting the player is not the sport. And if you think about a team sport, I use this analogy.

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I'm right between Philly and New York. But if you're a neuro and Philadelphia, I mean the worst

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kind of the Philly's walks into a restaurant. Somebody knows him and they're like, hey, that's that

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guy's on the Philly's. He's a major league baseball. He might be 700 in the world in baseball. If you're

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700 in the world in tennis, you're playing college tennis. So, you know, I think the team approach

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is really good because it can showcase so many guys. I mean, how many when you when you watch a football

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game, a baseball game, basketball and how many hockey, how many guys are being showcased, where when tennis

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is on TV, typically, I mean, honestly, tennis channels is going to a good job. Maybe midweek, you

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see some early round matches and people get to know some other players. But again, it goes back to

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that thing I said with Atlanta sports or tennis fans. You know, understand the 50 got in the

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world can be just as good as the one got in the world on a given day or if you're a four-year player,

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you're not going to see the suddenly and those differences. So, I think making a more team oriented

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getting fans around the world to embrace the idea of these teams and taking a part of the

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TAA calendar and making more team events. The calendar is growing enough and they make some changes

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to Davis Cup. But I really think a lot of the events around the world is beyond us. They're not.

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They have a tough time getting people on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, become a match. And yeah,

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you see the finals that it's packed. But I think with the exception of a few events, I think some of

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these events are struggling financially. So, make it more of a team event, you know, involve more people.

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You know, you showcase a sport at a greater level. And then we need more exposure by whether it's

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even streaming. You know, I know we talk a lot about linear TV. That's really important. We talked

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about that a lot of college tennis, but the streaming should be a good streaming. It should be

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the ability for anybody to get tennis live anytime. So, I think those two things are super important.

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If I were can get tennis, that's what I mean, I would try to do make it more team oriented. That's

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coming from a college coach where I believe in culture and team camaraderie and being a little bit more

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unself-inspired. But I think we tennis needs more of that. I knew we'd get a good answer out of you.

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I really appreciate it. Bobby Billy, I know you guys could talk forever, but let's schedule another

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time because I know we've got plenty of questions, plenty of stories to tell. We will make sure we get you

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and especially we want to talk again after the college season. See how it went. And then also ask,

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I've got a bunch of questions about what universal tennis is doing with streaming. You said,

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"Streamings are a good thing. They're doing the national championships or the IT on prime." They're

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doing some cool stuff. We want to kind of get your thoughts on a lot of that. But we can even get

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to ask him about the R tennis. Well, that's the thing. We've got to go talk to that guy right now.

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But we really appreciate your time Billy and we will definitely stay in touch. I know you talked about

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the elox and I'm sure you won't be very far away. Yeah, great. I really appreciate what you're doing

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for tennis and I really appreciate you having me on this great. It's great and ever you have and I wish

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you all the best. Bye, come proud of you. Oh, thank you. And proud of you guys.

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Well, there you have it. We want to thank Rejovenate for use of the studio and be sure to hit that

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follow button. Also, we've been nominated for a podcast award. The best tennis podcast. For more

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about that, check the show notes. And with that, we're out. See you next time.