Episode:#44 Shaun Boyce and Bobby Schindler

In this episode we talk to Dave Matthews and full disclosure, Dave was my academy coach back in the early 90’s when I was preparing to play in college so we have known each other quite a while. Dave is in the GA Tennis Hall of Fame and has run the Dave Matthews Tennis Academy since the mid-80’s. Dave is a USTA junior tournament official and has a heart warming story to get us started about a parent interaction which could have ended up in a very dangerous situation.

Watch the LIVE replay: https://www.youtube.com/live/XHz_FhFUiYA?si=tc1IFbR6U3FAk_SO

Shaun Boyce USPTA: [email protected]

https://tennisforchildren.com/ 🎾

Bobby Schindler USPTA: [email protected]

https://windermerecommunity.net/ 🎾

Geovanna Boyce: [email protected]

https://regeovinate.com/ πŸ’ͺπŸΌπŸ‹οΈ

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Transcript
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(upbeat music)

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Welcome to the Atlanta Tennis Podcast.

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We wanna have a conversation as long as it starts with tennis.

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Hey, hey, this is Sean with the Atlanta Tennis Podcast,

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where you can also find deals on equipment, apparel,

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or even the Daniel Medvedev LaCost shoes

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at 25% off for paid members.

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In this episode, we talked to Dave Matthews

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and Full Disclosure.

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Dave was my Academy coach back in the early 90s

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when I was preparing to play in college,

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so we've known each other quite a while.

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Dave is in the Georgia tennis hall of fame

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and has run the Dave Matthews tennis academy

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since the mid 80s.

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Dave is a USDA junior tournament official

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and has a heartwarming story to get us started

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about a parent interaction

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which could have ended up in a very dangerous situation.

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Have a listen and let us know what you think.

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(upbeat music)

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I will say hello.

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I am Sean Boyce with GoTennis

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and the Atlanta tennis podcast.

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I'm here as always or as usually

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with Bobby Schindler.

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Today we have Dave Matthews.

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And is anybody asked no, not that Dave Matthews,

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the actual Dave Matthews.

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Dave Matthews tennis academy

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and I will start with Full Disclosure.

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Dave has known me since I was about 14, 15.

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When he was that I joined your Academy in 19,

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right?

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Yeah, no.

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Yeah, it's about 14, 15, somewhere along in there.

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Yeah.

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And I was there with a few other guys.

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We still know in town.

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So the Dave Matthews tennis academy has been around

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quite a while.

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So you've got some experience with running an academy,

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getting some kids like me.

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It's actually a testament to your coaching

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that someone wanted me to play

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on their college tennis team.

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So that definitely says a lot.

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But I want to start because you're also a USDA official

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and that's one of the things we haven't talked about

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on the podcast at all at this point.

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We've been doing this a few years now.

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And we haven't had any questions that lead to,

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oh my gosh, that guy might be going to get a gun.

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So jumping right in, you have a story.

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I have it on good authority.

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You have a story where you're pretty sure it got bad enough

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at a USDA.

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Let me point this out.

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Children's sporting event.

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They use things we're going to escalate.

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I have got to hear this story.

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Yeah, it was a junior tennis tournament, you know,

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like we, like I've taken you to and all the academy kids to.

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And, you know, generally, I'll take, you know,

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back in the old days, I would take kids there in a van

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and things like that.

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Now with, you know, lawsuit and all that,

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you kind of avoid that.

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You show up and you find the kids there and watch them play.

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And, you know, and that's as good as you can do right now.

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So, yeah, I'm now a USDA official.

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I appreciate the tournaments that we help run up

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at the facility I work at.

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And me and another gentleman who is also a USDA,

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not only official, but he also operates, you know,

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does the draws and all that in the background

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before the tournament ever starts.

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So he's about as qualified as you can get.

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I bring more of the player standpoint into it,

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being an player and coach and all that.

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So between us both, we pretty much seeing about everything you can see.

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And there was this one tournament.

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It was, it was several years ago, thank goodness.

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It's kind of hopefully, you know, gotten out of the way,

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but we're sitting there and we, the canopy we sit under

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is up on the hill so we can see all 12 courts.

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We time all the warm-ups and everything, everybody gets,

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you know, we know at the five minute warm-up,

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but we sometimes, depending on draws and stuff,

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give them a little more time.

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So there's this one court right there next to,

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really next to where we are.

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And I looked up and, you know, the sad,

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the bad part about that court is that there are some canopies

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with picnic tables right there beside it.

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And, you know, some of the parents will sit over there

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under the canopies and, you know, when the kids on the other end,

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you know, they'll get that to them and think like that,

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which is, no, no, we don't want any interference.

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We want to, we would rather the kids get us

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and we tell them right there to check in desk,

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which is right next door to us.

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If you have a problem, you know, here's two officials

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in Blue, USDA official, you know, shirts coming get us.

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We'll come and help you settle it.

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We would rather do that and let the kids learn how to deal

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with each other and settle it on their own

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than to, you know, have outside interferences

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and then parents get into it and things like that.

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So this parent, you know, had been chatting a little bit

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and, you know, well, you know, sometimes we can't decipher

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between what is somebody saying, "Great shot,"

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or clapping and things like that.

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So, you know, we're not trying to listen to your every word,

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but this one kind of escalated a little bit

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and, you know, we can kind of see what other parents

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are getting a little irritated by the infection

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or injection of another parent.

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And it was kind of getting a little, you know,

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it was about time to stop it.

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So, you know, I stood up and took about four, five steps

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toward the canopies, which then at that point in time

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were only about 10 feet away.

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And I said, you know, "Excuse me, sir, you know,

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please back away from the fence.

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You don't need to be talking to your son while he's playing,

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you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

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and, you know, if the kids have a problem,

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tell them to come get me."

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And he looked at me and, I mean, literally was,

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- I'm sure he's completely apologetic.

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- Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

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- No?

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- Went from zero to 60 in about 0.2 seconds.

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- And he looked at me and, you know,

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they've got this, it's kind of interesting

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to watch society now because they don't go into

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in a, I don't want to say in a apologetic mode,

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but, you know, at least I didn't know, you know,

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something like that.

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It's like a defensive mode now.

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It's like, "Oh, you're gonna blame me,

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and, you know, is there any economic or racial

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or anything they can pull on to get in my face?"

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And that's exactly where he went.

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And the gentleman, you know, the other officials

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right behind me, and, because, you know,

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we kind of, we've been doing this long enough

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to where we can see a situation,

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and if it doesn't look good, we both are coming.

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And, you know, he's about five seconds,

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you know, five steps behind me.

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And, the gentleman just looked at me and he came up

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and got, you know, try to get in my face, you know,

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luckily, you know, like most people,

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they're a little bit shorter, which is okay.

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But, you know, I think some people are, I don't wanna say,

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intimidated, but I am what I am.

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And, you know, my voice carries,

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and you know that as well with anybody.

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And, for the listeners, sorry, I didn't know that.

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For the listeners, you're about six six, is that,

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I mean, is that about-- - Six five, six six, yeah.

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- Six five, six six, you know.

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- Can you walk up even as pleasant as you can possibly be,

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you're still intimidating presence?

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- Yeah, and I'm sorry.

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I just am what I am, you know?

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And so, you know, we get over there,

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and this gentleman just kept going back at me,

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and I just said, sir, you know, if we can't calm you down,

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because the kids now are trying, they're disrupted.

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There's five, the court five, six, seven, and eight,

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probably two or three of those are disrupted.

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And we're just basically trying to say, sir,

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let's just go over here under the tent,

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and get you away from the court,

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let the kids keep playing.

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My partner can take care of the kids

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who get them started back, and, you know,

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we've only got a hundred matches to play on 12 courts,

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which is, if you know, that's easy, math,

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10 blocks of, you know, 12 courts at a time,

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you're there for 12, 14 hours.

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So, we're trying to keep our day rollin' along.

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And so, he just looked at us and he goes, well, you know,

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if you keep this up, you know,

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I think I'm just gonna have to go to my car,

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and I'm lookin' at him, right?

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And, the boy, you gonna drive away,

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or, I'm from the street.

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I know what happens when that happens

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and I looked at my partner,

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my partner's lookin' at me.

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I'm like, whoa, whoa, I never heard that one before.

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And I just looked at my partner and he was like,

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let's just let him leave and we'll call the city of police,

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or the martial that comes through this area.

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And just tell him, you know,

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we may have a little bit of a situation just beyond guard.

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Well, luckily, you know, we tell the parents listen,

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we want you to stay, but if you're gonna keep disrupting the match,

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we gotta get you out of here.

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Whether you go sit in the car, turn on the AC, fine,

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or if you even come by, you know,

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and you got cell phones and stuff,

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you can call your kid, tell him you come to pick him up,

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or they can call you, take him, pick me up, I'm done,

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but you gotta let the matches continue.

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And, you know, at that point,

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just you know, it was really in my face.

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And I was, you know, everybody around was going,

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wow, this dude is lost his mind.

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And it, it, it, it shot me.

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It's on, I mean, it did just shot me to think the parents

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that of the kids like you guys, when you came through,

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my parents would never show up and say,

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they knew that if Shawn Boyce got in trouble,

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Dave, if Dave was there,

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Dave was gonna make sure he has a level playing field

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and everything else takes care of itself.

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But, in this day and time, it's like the kids,

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the parents won't let the kids play and learn

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how to get along with each other and get, you know,

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solve your problems.

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You know, tennis is like, now, not even the main,

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for, you know, not the main thing on the table.

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So, so yeah.

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- Bobby, I'm sure you're completely shocked

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by this parent behavior.

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- I wanted to his name.

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(laughing)

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- Well, you know,

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I'm shot a few guesses.

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(laughing)

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- We're all sure we met this guy, right?

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- Well, and the sad part is, you know,

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I would like to think, sadly, it don't happen.

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You would think that a governing body,

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whether it's USDA, UTR, whatever,

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these people need to be up there going,

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okay, we got a list of people that are problematic.

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If it continues to happen, they gotta get going.

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You're gonna ruin a good game, a good program,

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whoever's it is, it doesn't matter.

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These people, and they will ruin it in a heartbeat

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to think their kid is innocent.

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And, you know, you know, what happens to kids that are led to do,

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you know, a parent to do this,

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do you get the same thing coming up as a younger adult later?

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And that's a whole other game.

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I don't wanna see.

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- That's an interesting thought.

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So, as a USDA official,

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do you think that's something the USDA could do

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is create kind of a list where you can walk out

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and have soccer, you know, when you're yellow card

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and you're red card, but I assume you have the authority

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to remove someone from a tournament premises,

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but it would be interesting to have an ongoing list

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where parents at some point say,

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hey, you know what, little Johnny,

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love to have your tournament,

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by the way, but your father's not allowed here.

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Or your mother's, you think that's possibly able to be created?

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Or a good thing about that?

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- You know, it kind of is gonna,

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looks like it's gonna have to happen,

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you know, because society ain't getting better, you know?

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There's a several areas of our, our livelihoods,

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but just several areas of life itself,

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where it's gotten to be the wild, wild west.

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It's almost like, you know, you drive a bigger car,

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you can get away with everything, but you can't.

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And you shouldn't be able to,

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you should be adhering to the walls of the road

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so that everybody gets safer, but it don't get that,

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and ain't that way.

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It's got not a control,

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and this is the same thing.

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People are getting away with it,

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and nobody wants to step up and say,

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I'm sorry, you're wrong, you're bad for the program,

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you need to go find something else

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because we ain't letting you in.

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But people are so scared that those people

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are gonna start hollering that they let them get away with it.

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And to me, that's wrong.

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You're letting the good people get badly affected

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by the bad people.

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And there's a minority of them out there,

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but when they start,

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they, you know, what they'll cliche now is,

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if you hollering louder,

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you get more tension, you get away with more.

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That's bull crap.

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You know, I'm almost to the point now where,

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I think looking at your entourage,

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I've watched you, I saw it,

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and all these people are turning it out.

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I like that, I'm like, I never did that.

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I turned around, understood there's another point to go.

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Let's get over there,

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and let's keep the trend going.

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I don't wanna ruffle your feathers by doing that.

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I don't wanna let you know, I'm not happy if I don't do it.

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I wanna keep coming at you 110% every point to win every point.

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And if I use that energy,

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that's energy I could have used to run down an extra ball

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or two a few points like it, 'cause it does, it hats up.

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I see these guys, I'm sitting here watching

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Isuna and Mo right now on my TV up here in my office.

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And I see them doing that like every point,

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I'm like, good God, your emotions have just got to be spent.

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And a three out of five said, match, I don't know,

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if I got that much energy.

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- Staying positive is one thing,

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but that whole, I have to be overly energetic.

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And I don't coach at the ATP level,

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so I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing.

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I've got my thoughts on, could be a waste of energy,

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but I like that positivity.

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I wonder at some point though,

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from a tennis point of view in the kids,

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we end up punishing the kids because you're dad's a jerk.

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And I use, I guess dad,

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maybe it's more often than not the males,

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'cause 80% is probably,

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probably how that usually plays out psychologically

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is to who that is.

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But I appreciate you starting with that

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because I know we haven't talked much USDA tournament-wise

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and now I wanna go back.

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So I wanna take a step back.

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Can you tell the listeners, tell everybody who you are,

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you started, if I have my numbers right,

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you started Dave Maddie, you started the Academy

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in mid to late '80s, '87s somewhere around there,

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which means you met me in '90s, something.

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And in that case, you were also a player,

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you're in the Hall of Fame somewhere,

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give us a little bit of who is,

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who is Dave Maddie.

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- I like that somewhere.

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(laughing)

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Yeah, my junior tennis academy,

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actually I started in Denver, Colorado,

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where I lived at the time.

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I worked at a nice little club there.

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I had about 15 kids traveled around

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to the Intermountain region tournament and stuff like that.

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My oldest player that I have right now is,

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God, he's gotta be getting near 50, that's pretty bad.

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Yeah, I was 25 or six and he was 14.

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So yeah, I'm only 10, 11 years older than him.

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So he lives in Phoenix, Arizona,

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but then I moved to Atlanta in '86,

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started the DMTA, which is that logo right there,

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started that in '89 and then you got,

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you John Jeffrey, Danny, a whole bunch

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I came in there over at Circle Stone

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and then at Hidden Hills.

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And that, so basically then, while that was happening,

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I was also playing international events.

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Plades started playing Nationals when I came off

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the satellite circuit in '89,

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started the 30th and over division in seniors.

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And one, I don't know, half a dozen or so,

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a little bit less than a dozen national titles.

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Representative USA, a couple of times on the,

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senior Davis Cup teams did win a world title

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in about half a 205.

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So you know, met my friend God for it,

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too, son is doing pretty good right now on the Pro Tour.

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That's right.

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We first heard about Taylor Fritz from you

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'cause you had to do a kid who was supposedly pretty good.

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- Yeah, he's pretty good, yeah.

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He's actually now in the third round of the open now,

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so he's doing pretty good.

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But that's the, the sum of the nutshell,

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I did get inducted into George Sennitz Hall of Fame in '13

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and that was an honor.

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They represented all my kids and the family,

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DMTA family, you know?

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'Cause no matter who was hitting with me,

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whatever, everybody had part of it.

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You know, it wasn't just me.

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That was, that's such a facade.

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You know, there's so many parts to that puzzle.

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It's crazy, but, you know, I'm very thankful

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and luckily, a little bit of my talent and hard work,

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you know, with all the belief and from all my players

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and stuff and hopefully I transform some of that

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into some of y'all, you know?

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You're doing pretty darn well and working hard,

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got a good family and that's what life's about.

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It really is and that was one of the things you talked about a lot

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when I was a kid and it sounds like you're the same way

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where you say you get to know the kids inside and out

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and you really say, hey look,

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maybe I'm not the greatest tennis coach in the world,

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I don't know who is, but I'm as good as I can possibly be.

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And in that case, if you like what I have to offer,

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it's more than just the tennis.

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My mother still quotes you when I was a kid

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and it's just things that stick with you.

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And I as a coach and I know Bobby's cognizant

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of how he speaks to kids as well.

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When it's adults, you can kind of loosen up a little bit,

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but when we talk to kids, we're cognizant

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of how we speak to them and the things that we say,

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I remember being a young coach and kind of a little more off

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the cuff and a little more I can say whatever I want

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as opposed to realizing how much we affect these kids

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and the things, so many of our rules,

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my family life rules we have are worded the way they are

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so they can scale.

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I want to be able to follow the same rules

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or most of the same rules as the five-year-old

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that we talk to, it's the hey, here's rule number one,

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I follow the same rule as opposed to having different rules

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for kids and adults, but being that role model

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makes a huge difference and that's hard to do over 30,

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35 years and stay consistent.

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So I didn't need to downplay and say,

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"Hull of Fame somewhere, I know you've got Alabama ties

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and Colorado ties."

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So I went through and checked it all out

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and I wasn't sure how many of those you have.

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I didn't know you won a world title, that's really cool.

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- That was a very, very, I knew those guys,

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for like I said, I've been playing on the senior tour

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for 15 years, Mike Federley, Val Wilder,

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he was in Dallas, in the Federley's in Palm Springs,

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and Egan Adams, who's in Florida,

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we were the four that got selected ago

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and went down to South Africa.

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It was a great trip, took my whole family

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and just had a blast.

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And one, the world title, the world seemed title down there

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and it was an awesome feeling to represent the US

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and it was a very good trip for culture reasons,

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to experience that.

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We did get to go on a half day safari.

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It's kind of neat, the trophy that we got is not that big,

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but it's a glass and etched in the back of the glass

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of the big five animals, you know, the rhinospheres,

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oh my God, it's unbelievable.

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So people, people look at my national titles

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and then they see that little glass thing

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and they're like, "Oh, what is that?"

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And I'm like, "That's my world title."

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And look in the glass and they're like,

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"Oh my God, that's the elephant and the rhinospheres

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and the lion, I'm like, yeah, the big five."

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And it's how that, it's very unique, trophy,

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but it definitely my highest, you know, honor, for sure.

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- That's a cool story.

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It reminds me of how good of a player you were in my memory

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even as a kid thinking I was good

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and just being tortured by you as though I was nothing.

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And I have to play against seven year olds

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to feel that good.

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So you don't know.

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- Oh, you don't know.

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- Upcoming college players is a nice feature

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to be able to say, "Oh, you know what?"

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Yeah, you're pretty good.

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All right, watch this.

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All right, go run that down.

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Be able to talk to you. - Or try it.

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- I remember all that.

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But it makes me wonder now,

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because like I said in the pre-stream

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that I don't know if you and Bobby

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had ever been in the same room at the same time.

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I'm sure Bobby's brain, Bobby, your brain's gotta be running

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if you guys know any of the same people.

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- Well, my first question, David,

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and you can pass on this one,

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but do you take responsibility for Sean's forehand?

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(laughing)

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- I like to say, as far as I'm good for his two-handed backhands.

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He got a pretty dang good one.

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- I got the question, yeah.

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(laughing)

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- You notice how scooted on by that one?

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(laughing)

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Sean had a good game,

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and we knew what to exploit and what to stay away from.

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And that was the beauty of coaching and having kids.

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At that group that I had back then,

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you talk about some very acute listeners, man, they were.

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They were on everything that I said,

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and they, most of them learned very well

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and went on to play some pretty good tennis,

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and I was very proud of them all.

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- I mean, you look at that age group, Sean,

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you're close to Ricky Bowers, right?

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Did you ever play Ricky?

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Or, I feel like,

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- I know that name, I can't play.

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- Well his dad is, he would've been one of the ones

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that you might have met up with later in life,

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because his dad is a big corporate developer.

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- But Ricky played Spencer Reed.

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They're probably all just a little old,

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you can use Fralik, John the Fralik,

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some a little bit older,

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but you were in a pretty hot bed

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for a Georgia tennis turn that time, that time per.

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- Well yeah, we were losing to the 10-year-olds

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in John Williams, and the problem is we were 16

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and getting smelt by the 10-year-olds,

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so we knew we weren't going too far in tennis.

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- Yeah, I do know that, Sean.

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I used to say, "I didn't need to play tournaments,

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"I was 17th in my club,

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"so I didn't need to go out to lose any place."

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I was quite easily losing right at home,

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so I didn't have to travel.

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I am surprised, I'm like, especially your over in the neck

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in the woods, do you ever know Dennis Horde?

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- Dennis Horde, no, I'm not off my head, no.

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- He's a little older than you,

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but he was kind of like my mentor,

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and he was over at Swannie Station,

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all-town and Duluth.

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He was brought down by Ralston Gorman

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back in the early 90s to run their academy

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behind Lennox Park,

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and that's how I got in back in the tennis,

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meeting him and Billy Payt got me back going.

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And, but, you know, you two are outside of the accent,

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which I knew you weren't from Colorado,

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so I was leaning toward Alabama,

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Georgia Hall of Fame, just from the way you sounded,

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but yeah, just curious who you run up.

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And I think we've met, I'm looking,

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but I'll tell you what, you look like my father-in-law,

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you look like Stuart Russell,

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I think we get to a certain age where tall,

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where the glasses real start looking like.

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I'm 28, or about to turn 58,

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and I got Stuart Russell by two weeks,

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so he's right around our age, so.

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- Yeah, I'm a little bit older than that,

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but, you know, not too much.

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Like thank goodness, but yeah, I know Billy Payt,

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where is he?

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He worked at Notre Dame for a while, or a while.

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- He noted Dame went to Alabama,

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and now he's at Princeton.

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- That's what I thought.

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- Yep, yep, yep.

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- I keep a Facebook ever down, and yeah.

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- We went to grad school together,

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but he's the person that got me back into tennis,

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so I could say, there's not many people

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you can point to and say, he changed my life.

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He changed my life.

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- Right, well that's good, though.

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- And you remind me of my old coach was King Benostrid.

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I don't know if you ever met King in your travels,

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but he was the same way, now again, a lot older,

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but he's been literally like number two in the country

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since he was in the 40s.

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- Yeah, yep.

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- His son was John, who Mary Carillo speaks up,

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and his daughter Molly played,

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and made a Twitter fund as Wimbleton, great player,

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one of the first two handers on both sides,

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but she just had a lot of it, but same thing, love.

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And he's probably, he's still a lot of God bless him,

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and he's 90s, and I still think he's playing tournaments.

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- And that wouldn't shot me, yeah.

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- Him and he's not, he's,

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- Him and Hugh Thompson,

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and the only two guys left.

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- You and his wife, all white.

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- I've played you a couple times.

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These are a few years older than me,

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but we played back when they did the case-wish thing.

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And me and Hugh played right over it

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at the Old Olympic tennis center, a couple times.

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First time they put us out on that center court,

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and I was like, oh, this is gonna be a great novelty.

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And then we go out there, and after about two games,

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I look to you, and I went, I don't know, homie.

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I think I hate this court, and he goes, why?

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I said, could I put the ball on the back wall?

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It's about 60 feet to the back wall.

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It's only 39 feet to the net.

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And he goes, yeah, you got that right, mate.

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And I said, yeah, I'm gonna put this extra ball on the net.

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We, he won't, he won't, he won't let us get it.

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He started laughing.

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So the next year we played in the finals again,

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and they said, oh, I'm gonna put you on the center court.

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I said, no, you're not, and Hugh went, no, you're not.

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We're going over here right behind the,

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right behind the pro shop.

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We're gonna play right here on this sunken court,

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and this'll be fine.

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(laughs)

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And so, you know, it's just a funnier thing, but hey, you know,

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we were just trying to make a match simple, you know?

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- We are, Bobby, I was curious to you guys know each other as well,

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but you're running, you're running some kids,

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less of an academy, Bobby, and you're not,

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you're not sending kids to college

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out of your academy in the same way,

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because you're more in the high school target, right?

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And Bobby, you're at the, in the four-site,

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four-site area, I think Dave's more view-ford.

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I think the park he referred to earlier

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might have been a view-ford city park if I have that.

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- Yeah. - Fixed it in my head.

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So, I think if you're over closer to me,

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but even back in the day when Bobby was,

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Bobby was in that area being around,

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you mentioned Dennis Hort, Bobby,

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you were still out of the white columns area,

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so you weren't even over near us anyway,

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so I don't know how often you guys would have run into each other.

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- Right. - I think, I think I'm over this time

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until about what, 10 years ago,

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it was 2013 when we started, we came over,

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and like I said, I don't wanna say with who,

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because I'm a strong feeling it might be the father

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of the problem child, but,

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(laughs)

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he's the heroine that involved in tennis

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and had a daughter who was very successful.

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But, yeah, we came over, we're close.

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I mean, as far west as we are, far east,

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we're real close, we board a line view-ford.

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But yeah, we have a little bit different.

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We tried, we did a little high performance,

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I just didn't have the patience for the parents,

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and it's unfortunate.

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And one thing I wanted to ask about,

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'cause you brought up a good, you know, the way we speak,

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and I find, and going back to what you said earlier,

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as well, we have to be so careful that,

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you know, so I don't get light around the parents very often.

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They see me on the court, they'll get my sarcasm.

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But when, you know, we have a conversation,

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it's, you know, they're gonna get my good vocabulary,

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they're gonna find out how the masters degree,

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and they're gonna find out that, you know,

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we'll have an adult car,

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and that's what your kids are gonna get,

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because I want them to see what they're getting,

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because it is so hard.

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I mean, we live in, you know, ESPN is crippled sports,

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and we always laugh about what you said as well, Dave.

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You know, the idea that tennis can be, you know,

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you can't come out of the locker room,

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and win the first quarter, and win a tennis match.

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You can, you can win the first quarter and hold on.

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Tennis, you'll be dead, especially in a three out of five

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so you match. - Absolutely.

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- So, yeah, and you wonder,

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and nobody talks about it, because it's taboo.

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What is the long term effect?

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When did we ever have mental health issues

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when we were playing?

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We have never been. - We never did.

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We just didn't tell anybody.

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(laughing)

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But I don't think we needed the constant affirmation.

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We knew we lost, like essentially, you know,

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people talked about when you, you know, my last match,

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I lost, but you know what?

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It was a heck of a journey.

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I was trying to come back, because I didn't play,

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and you know, I did everything I could,

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and you know, I put the racket down,

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it felt good about it.

Speaker:

It wasn't some, I was angry, you know, I was somebody beat,

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somebody beat me who deserved to beat me,

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but I had done a lot to get to that spot.

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I was proud of myself, and it was the work

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that I would use to further in my life.

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Today, I just, I agree with you.

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I just, I get so nervous when I see these kids all pumped up.

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Oh my gosh, it's a point.

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You just won a point.

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You can use four points in tennis and win the match.

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Don't get preoccupied about a point.

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- That's right.

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Yeah, they, yeah, they,

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yeah, it's that constant immediate gratification,

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and I tell my kids all the time,

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even some of my, you know, intermediate kids, I say, listen.

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You know, we're in a group of six or eight kids,

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and you hear me tell somebody, good shot, good stroke,

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things like that.

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You know, if you don't hear me say that to you,

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it's not 'cause I don't like you,

Speaker:

it's because I've given you some direction,

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and I'm waiting on you to tap into that

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and heading that direction.

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And when you do that, I'll tell you,

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good shot, but keep working at it.

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And because I don't tell somebody great shot too often,

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because great shots, you know, I don't use that phrase

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for somebody who hits a, you know, beginner stroke,

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I'll just say, hey, good shot, keep going,

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you know, work at it, work at it.

Speaker:

But they want somebody to say,

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oh, great shot because it's an ESPN moment.

Speaker:

I'm like, no, you're getting that one to me,

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but that's where we are, kind of the same thing, you know?

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- Yeah, and unfortunately, I do feel like it permeates

Speaker:

into they're all filled with a bunch of trigger words.

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And just like, guys, you're reading the wrong,

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wrong sometimes, man.

Speaker:

Stay away, you know, not making your life, you say,

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I try to make my kids, my father was great,

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he gave me two choices,

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gave me the feeling that I had a choice,

Speaker:

that I was making a decision,

Speaker:

even though he controlled all the variables.

Speaker:

It's kind of what you try to do as a coach

Speaker:

with your kids when you have them.

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Yeah, you might think you have a choice here,

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but I'm controlling all the variables

Speaker:

that go into that choice.

Speaker:

So, and relish that because,

Speaker:

as this is as easy as life gets.

Speaker:

- You got it.

Speaker:

- That's exactly right.

Speaker:

- Like I said earlier about the children's sporting event.

Speaker:

Guys, this is kids playing a game.

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And if you're threatening to go to your car

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because you're angry enough to decide you need to be armed,

Speaker:

yes, we're in Georgia, I get, okay?

Speaker:

That's not what I'm talking about.

Speaker:

This is just a children's sporting event

Speaker:

when the official actually politely to come sit down,

Speaker:

just do it, it's not that hard.

Speaker:

- Yeah. - For the kids.

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And that's one of the things we do with Gotenis

Speaker:

and with the podcast Dave is we're here for the kids.

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We're here for the players.

Speaker:

And one of the things we wanna do

Speaker:

is help everybody with that.

Speaker:

And with you coming out saying,

Speaker:

hey guys, maybe we need to make some changes,

Speaker:

is the change really that we need to start

Speaker:

with the black listing parents?

Speaker:

Is it getting that bad?

Speaker:

Is, I mean, in soccer game, you can yell and scream

Speaker:

and yell at your kid, kick that guy in the ass.

Speaker:

You can do that and the other parents are gonna look

Speaker:

at you funny, but nobody's gonna ask you to back away

Speaker:

from the sideline because what's the difference in tennis

Speaker:

that we can hardly clap anymore?

Speaker:

What's going on there?

Speaker:

- Well, I think, you know,

Speaker:

and I was, I talked about this, you know,

Speaker:

the other day is that, you know,

Speaker:

you have to be careful that, you know,

Speaker:

what I loved about the game of tennis,

Speaker:

growing up playing football, baseball, basketball,

Speaker:

and then I picked up tennis,

Speaker:

and there were no lessons where I was at.

Speaker:

I just, my mom wanted some exercise

Speaker:

and went out and bought the ball around,

Speaker:

you know, everybody does when you first start.

Speaker:

And after about six months,

Speaker:

because I was a decent athlete,

Speaker:

because of all the other sports,

Speaker:

still do me and what you need to go find some kids to play with

Speaker:

because you're just too fast,

Speaker:

you're getting just too many balls,

Speaker:

and I ain't got that kind of exercise.

Speaker:

And so I said, okay, no problem.

Speaker:

And I still get with her, but I think the thing

Speaker:

that I loved about the game of tennis is that

Speaker:

if me and Sean are playing, it's me, my game,

Speaker:

my strokes at that moment against what Sean has to offer.

Speaker:

And I got to figure those problems out.

Speaker:

And I don't need to worry about other outside

Speaker:

and apprentices like coaching and all that stuff

Speaker:

because that's what tennis does at bring to the table.

Speaker:

And it's, that's the beauty of the game of the sport of tennis.

Speaker:

And I'm afraid, you know, I laugh now because, you know,

Speaker:

your coaching is supposed to be

Speaker:

when you're on that side of the court.

Speaker:

Oh, give me a break.

Speaker:

They're harming 400 yards away.

Speaker:

Hey, go to the net.

Speaker:

I mean, different languages, you know, here we go again.

Speaker:

You give people a little bit of a,

Speaker:

a little wiggle room to coach now,

Speaker:

'cause we think it's better.

Speaker:

Now we're gonna just take it and you can be anywhere

Speaker:

and to stay to him and hall.

Speaker:

Well, then the fans think they can do that too.

Speaker:

Well, now you got people hollering

Speaker:

when they throwing a ball up to serve.

Speaker:

And that's why I got an internist

Speaker:

was cause I could actually concentrate on me,

Speaker:

Sean, our strokes, what we got to do to get a win.

Speaker:

Now I got to block out everybody else.

Speaker:

It's in the room too.

Speaker:

And you did that anyway, but it's getting harder

Speaker:

because we're letting more people power,

Speaker:

which is symptomatic of other sports.

Speaker:

Not what the gentleman's game was about, you know?

Speaker:

- So in that case, we've been doing this

Speaker:

for thousands of years and therefore we should keep doing it.

Speaker:

Or do we need to make the switch

Speaker:

from the generation before to what Tiafo says,

Speaker:

let us use him as an example most recently.

Speaker:

- Sure.

Speaker:

- But let the people walk in like a basketball game.

Speaker:

Let the people walk around, let them scream.

Speaker:

If you can't handle it, go into your crying closet

Speaker:

and have your space, have your safe space,

Speaker:

but out here we need to have it a little less mono-emano

Speaker:

and a little more yelling and screaming

Speaker:

and he wants that interaction.

Speaker:

But then I just think back to happy Gilmore.

Speaker:

Go, okay, are you really just screwing up the sport

Speaker:

or are we just old for worrying about the evolution

Speaker:

into the next thing?

Speaker:

- I don't have a problem with evolution into the next thing.

Speaker:

Like I said, I don't think everybody is meant to play tennis.

Speaker:

You know, you get all these other people,

Speaker:

all these organizations trying to get more people to play tennis

Speaker:

and what you want to look, you want to,

Speaker:

you can check this when you leave.

Speaker:

Go look and see how many senior tournaments you see now.

Speaker:

What's happened, and I told this guy,

Speaker:

he was on the committee for senior tournaments.

Speaker:

This has got to be 50, oh, probably 25 years ago

Speaker:

when I was in the 90s

Speaker:

and I was playing my national tournaments.

Speaker:

I was ranked 1 or 2 or 3 in the nation

Speaker:

in my age category, the 30s.

Speaker:

And my sponsor wanted me to play a local tournament

Speaker:

in Marriata over on the other side of Marriata.

Speaker:

I lived over in Lythonia, so that's an hour and 20 minute ride.

Speaker:

Easy with no traffic.

Speaker:

And I said, you got to be kidding me.

Speaker:

I'm gonna walk over there, probably lose four games

Speaker:

of whole tournament, three rounds.

Speaker:

I'll probably see you in no problem.

Speaker:

La, la, la, la, I did.

Speaker:

And I talked to the guy, the second round person I had,

Speaker:

and I said, why is it we got to play one match a day?

Speaker:

I'm in the 30s division.

Speaker:

I'm not 50 or 60.

Speaker:

I'm in the 30s.

Speaker:

Why are we playing one match a day?

Speaker:

Well, people can't play two matches a day.

Speaker:

And I said, go play something else.

Speaker:

If you tell me a competitor that I need to play,

Speaker:

if we got a 16 draw, and I'm gonna play one match

Speaker:

on Friday night, two matches Saturday

Speaker:

and the finals on Sunday, I will get prepared to play that.

Speaker:

Now, if I decide I want to enter more events

Speaker:

if there's doubles and things like that,

Speaker:

that's my choice.

Speaker:

I'm not going to get in the way of somebody else

Speaker:

that doesn't want to do it by, you know,

Speaker:

making them conform to me.

Speaker:

I want to play, if I play singles only, this is what I want to do,

Speaker:

and I don't mind playing two a day.

Speaker:

But don't make me take off work two days,

Speaker:

and that's what I had to do.

Speaker:

Monday to Tuesday, it was a Saturday Sunday Monday,

Speaker:

Tuesday tournament.

Speaker:

I had a bow on Saturday.

Speaker:

I played one match Sunday, one in like 40 minutes.

Speaker:

I drove two and a half hours to play a 35 minute match.

Speaker:

And all of a sudden, from that year,

Speaker:

that year, back then, we were having a senior tournament

Speaker:

somewhere in the state of Georgia,

Speaker:

every weekend from literally probably third weekend in March,

Speaker:

those tournaments in March would be down like in Savannah,

Speaker:

South Georgia, things like that for weather.

Speaker:

And then in April, they would start everywhere.

Speaker:

I mean, it was crazy.

Speaker:

You could find a senior tournament, usually with,

Speaker:

I'd say at least 12 to 16 or sometimes even a 32 draw,

Speaker:

and you could find one every weekend,

Speaker:

all the way through, probably the end of October.

Speaker:

I look last year in Georgia.

Speaker:

I think there were 10 senior tournaments the whole year.

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I found one in May this year.

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That's what I'm saying.

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So one is--

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I'm not sure if you've lost it search,

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but I'm with you that there aren't that many.

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Because what's happened is the running of people,

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because they can't take off work.

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Nobody wants to play you.

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We got to play you.

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We got you.

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We got you.

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We got you.

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We got you.

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And Hugh Thompson, nobody wants to play you guys.

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Sure they do.

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We laugh on.

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But that's the, you know, the, that's the saddest part is,

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we've literally eliminated the senior event in lieu of what?

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And now we're, well, and I'm sure Pickaball has a draw to that,

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and that, but that's, so what?

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So did we miss that boat?

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You know, did we create that by eliminating senior tournament?

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You know, you're going to, you're not going to stop some of the people.

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Because Pickaball did, it's on fire.

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But it's going to moderate just like everything,

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not market everything.

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But where does senior tournaments go?

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Because I remember when I played the 30 National Grass Courts in Santa Barbara

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one year, the tournament director was like 85 years old.

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Van Zurvey was his name.

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And we're sitting at one day in one range of like we had in like four years.

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And I looked at Mrs. Zurvey and he, I told him how to fix it.

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You know, I said, I'm from Atlanta.

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We have range of it all the time.

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We just get to did it.

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And he's like, oh my god, that's awesome.

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So I said, Mr.

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you still play in tournaments?

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He goes, yeah, he goes.

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I think I'm a win one next year.

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I said, why is that?

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He goes because I think my biggest competitors going to pass away.

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I'm like, whoa, whoa, you kidding me?

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He goes, hey.

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If you cannot live him, you can beat him.

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I was like, oh, Mr. Zurvey, you're so mean.

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But part of longevity is at the end of the rainbow, you might win some gold balls.

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Who knows?

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But it was interesting to know that there were people still playing at 80 years old

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in National tournaments.

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I think he said his role was 12.

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And I was like, you know, that has got to be the biggest reward you could ever have.

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Forget all the titles and all of them.

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Just think of your plan at 80.

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How awesome that would be.

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That's like a trophy in itself.

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And in that case, I can see why you want everything to be quiet.

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But in today's world, are we, are we just kind of stifling the parents?

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Are we, are we pushing back so much like the cat that wants the door open?

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He doesn't actually want to come in.

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He just wants the door open.

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Do we give a little bit with the parents thing?

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Why tennis?

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Well, I think I think.

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I will have to say this from a physics standpoint.

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Oh, you, you like that one?

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I knew you'd like that one.

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From a physics standpoint, we as tennis players do rely on the saddle of the ball more than

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other sports.

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Yeah.

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You know, football, you throwing it, you, you see it in that ball, you say, you can have

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all the hovering you want.

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That's why baseball, a foul ball is not, a fair ball is not called.

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It's like tennis.

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A fair ball, the referee points in toward the inside of the baseline.

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He doesn't have a reason.

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He only hollows on a foul ball.

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And it's because of cloud noise.

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So my point is, is that I can tell you now, Sean Boyce hits a serve.

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I don't care.

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I already say 110 by 15, 20 miles an hour.

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That sound is to me before the ball is.

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And I rely on that sound to be able to respond.

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I know how you hit it.

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I hear it.

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People don't give that any credit, but it's huge when you're playing to be able to hear

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the ball.

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So I'm not saying we need to stop it.

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Maybe I need to wear my, my AirPods and just put on, you know, noise reduction from the

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crowd.

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I don't know, you know?

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Well, I see the players now with the headphones as they come on trying to stay in their own

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world, trying to block your head.

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And I really appreciate one of the things you did for us was teaching us how to handle

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that pressure.

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And one of the things I mentioned a lot is the things that tennis does being an individual

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sport, not the team sport in the same way where you just kind of follow the crowd and everybody

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else.

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But an individual, the 10 year old that walks through, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me,

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hi, I'm Sean.

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I need to check in for my tennis match.

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I think that's awesome.

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And I say that a lot, but I really do think that's really cool.

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But now there's so much, I struggle with that.

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I'm kind of battling my way through the parents to get to the check in.

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I'm closing myself off because I'm afraid of everything.

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And I think that's an interesting combination coming from like a guy with T-O-Fo who's

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a basketball guy.

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So he's used to that kind of thing.

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Absolutely.

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Maybe he likes that idea.

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I just don't think it's going to spread in the same way where we do have, you know, we

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mentioned the safe, the safe spaces in the, in the mental health challenges.

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Well, why do these people really maybe play tennis because it is a quiet, sometimes inwardly

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focused?

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Absolutely.

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100%.

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I think that's why I like it.

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You got it.

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Don't forget now.

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I did play college basketball.

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So I totally understand the crowd noise.

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You know, the one thing about college basketball is you also, you also feel, here we go again,

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Sean, you also feel the ball when it's being dribbled on the floor, not just with hearing

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it, but you feel it through your feet if you're tuned to what you're doing.

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And so me knowing where the ball is is not only a listening thing, it's a feeling thing

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with the floor itself.

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Uh tennis, you know, you don't get to feel it with the ball on the asphalt, but you do hear

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it.

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And that sound, you, we know when a ball is hit, not clean.

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We know when I hear a miss hit ball, I'm moving forward because it's you to going to be

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up there near the net somewhere, whereas it's the crowd is hollering.

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That's a, that's a lost opportunity.

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And I don't think, you know, you're a lay person who pays, I ain't doing it, you know, hundreds

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of dollars to sit and watch a match and holler.

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I don't think that you understand how much they're impacting the game by hollering.

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You know, they think it's, oh, I'm cheering, but you're, you're definitely in the sound of

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what I need to know.

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And that is the sound of that ball clean or not.

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And you know, you hit a ball, you know, what, I'm watching these guys hit 100, 100 nine mile

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hour forehand.

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Do you think I don't want to hear the sound of that ball coming out?

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I know ain't got a chance, but I got less of a chance if I don't hear that sound, you

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know?

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That makes a lot of sense.

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I like that a lot.

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Bobby, you got anything else for Dave before I give him the king of tennis question?

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No, I love it.

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I always say, today's the same thing, Dave, I use all my senses when I play.

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I tell it's too human outside, you know, so yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, hot and

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as low as hierarchy, but it goes back to another conversation, another day.

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I love what you've opened up.

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I think tennis in its quest to become more popular, sacrifice to a lot of what made it great.

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And you know, it's that fine line in Mark Cuban here when you watch Shock Tank, everybody

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always goes in there.

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Well, if we make this check and we make it more accessible to the masses, and Mark Cuban

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one time said, why would you want to do that?

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Keep it high priced and people will pay.

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You won't have the same, but it is a lot of truth to that.

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You know, there's a, it's okay to say the pros are doing it at a completely different

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level.

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You're a recreational player.

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Enjoy what they're doing, but you know, do what you can do and don't try to aspire, especially

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in today's world.

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These kids are bigger, faster, stronger.

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You're, there's never been a greater distance between what's going on on television,

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what's going on in the park?

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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Don't, don't sit there and say what's wrong.

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You know, I remember I gave a tennis etiquette class at Whitecom's one day and they said,

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what is that?

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I said, what are you kidding me?

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I said, that's more, and you know, I'm the, I'm the other extreme, you know, I'm a poor

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kid whose dad was a longshoreman.

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I got into tennis because it was close to boxing.

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You know, my coach was able to convince my dad, what's boxing and he won't get beat up.

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And I was small, so my dad's like, all right, I like the idea.

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I mean, we went to the club, the club would let us play.

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We weren't allowed to turn on the TV.

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There was backgammon and there was chess.

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If you wanted, while you were waiting for a court, you were doing something because you had

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to realize that you weren't winning a match with your pawn.

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And you know, it drives me crazy today when I see kids rifle and return to serves on faults.

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It's like put it into the net.

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Somebody is going to get hurt, but we gave it up.

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He gave away all the, I think he can make it exciting.

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You know, Jimmy Connors was a get a pump up guy, but like you said, watch Connors, Connors

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never got pumped in the first set.

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He got up when he was about to, the news was almost firmly on the guy's neck.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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He knew when it was ending.

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He was getting real close to the ending point when he got there to that, that's right.

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It's so hard today because there is no Evan flow to these matches because it's so

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all over the place.

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Right.

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Absolutely 110%.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you didn't have to tell me when, you know, when there was a swing point coming up.

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You could tell by, you could tell by the motivation to, you know, do my thing right there.

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Clean, effective.

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One, two, three, you go and bro, you go and I'm now going to step on you.

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I'm going to give you about five or six points in a row to let you know this ain't yours.

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And then I'm going to run away.

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And I'm never going to look back.

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But now it's like every point, you know, like I said, I'm sitting here watching Mo and

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isn't or in the, in the foreset and, you know, the close, the close set, but you just got

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a wonder.

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How does that wear in terror on you?

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Because you know it does.

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It would meet.

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Yeah.

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I don't think, I don't think any of us, the lay people are, I guess we're out in between

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the lay people.

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We're, we're considered insiders, right?

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We're the insiders in between the professionals and the lay people.

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But we don't want to, we don't want to have to do three out of five.

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That just, that just doesn't sound good to, to matches in a day.

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Hopefully we can still pull off, but I think the typical player doesn't want to.

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So Dave, I will finish us off.

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And I've got a question that is fun for me to ask because I think I should be able to

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predict this simply because I've known you a long time as to where you'll go with this.

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But what I've realized is I can't.

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And predicting the future is hard.

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But in this case, if you were, we want to go with my favorite question, which is the King

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of tennis question, which is if you are King of tennis.

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And this is for either Atlanta, the United States, the whole world, the universe for a day,

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however long it takes.

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Is there anything you would do or change?

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We've talked about some of the USDA tournaments and some of the things we might like to see.

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But if you had that, you had that magic button or that magic wand or just being king to

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say, this is what we're going to do.

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And you would do or change in the world of tennis?

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Well, it's kind of like we hash back and forth about old school versus new school, which

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is traditional versus I call it basketball mentality around the tennis court.

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It's very hard to go in between.

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You're either going to get the crowd totally involved and that minimizes the players' effectiveness

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of what he is and puts it all on what he sees.

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And I will have to say, my eyesight at 20, 30, 40 years old was, I don't know what their

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best is, but it was 2020 plus some.

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I mean, I could see things that, I could see six, seven courts away, school boards.

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And people are like, how do you know it's going?

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I go, well, number one, I'm watching the match.

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Number two, I'm kind of can see that part.

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But, you know, I don't know if there's an in between phase that we're going to, we're in

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it already, whether we like it or not, we're in it.

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I don't know what the governing bodies are going to want to do because that's going to

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start appealing to a different segment, not just at a different segment of the population,

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but just a different mentality of a population.

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And I don't know if that's what tennis was really started for, invented for, I don't know

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what you want to call it, but I like the old school, you know, one on one.

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That's why I've got into tennis.

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I play team sports.

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I love team sports, but I didn't like, you know, one of my favorite movies searching for

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Bobby Fisher.

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You know, Bobby Fisher, well, actually the kid's name was Josh Wateskin.

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He actually didn't like the side of Bobby Fisher where he was vindictive toward his opponent,

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or his opponents.

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Contempt, that's right.

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That's right.

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I'm glad you brought that quote to that.

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I don't have that.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And I did, you know, my brother, my brother said at one time that the part of me that he

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did not like was that the part that if me and Sean are playing and you know me well

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enough, if you're serving and I'm hitting you the balls, I'm going to get the ball.

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Get that ball, those extra balls near you.

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So you ain't got to walk nowhere.

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And then all of a sudden you turn around and when it's my turn to serve, you hit the one

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in one corner, one in the other.

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I had this side of me, my brother saw it a lot to where I was going to like my dad's

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first sergeant kill mode.

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And it was a motivator.

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And he said that the thing he did not like about me was the fact that I had that side of

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me to find something I did not like in my opponent.

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And I would seize on that to motivate me to kill.

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And that put me in an area of mental and physical awareness to where I went is like a shark

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with real red meat in the water.

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You go.

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And you know, we all have that.

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If that's what we want to do is win, we have something that we can use to trigger it.

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And that's what I use, but you know, Josh Wayskin said, I don't have that.

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And you know, it was very, it was very poignant that I was the same way with baseball.

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I hated that my right field of suck every time he played.

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The ball would get hit out there.

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The ground ball go right between his legs and I'm in a short stop and I can feel that sucker

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and I felt so bad for that kid because he was giving it all, but he did not want to put

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in the time that I put in, you know, to be a short stop.

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And I understood it, but I didn't like the feelings that everybody had towards him.

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And that's part of the reason I got out of team sports is because I was willing to do that

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work.

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I was willing to work like a madman to be up there, to be the guy, but I also hated the

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side of people blaming that kid.

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I hated it.

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And that's what drove me to play tennis and I loved tennis for that reason.

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It is an individual sport.

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And when you've got, you know, like an art day, six guys on the singles team and three doubles

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teams were made up of those sticks, you still are an individual out there against that other

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opponent.

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Singles or doubles.

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And that's the facet I really still enjoy, you know.

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And to change the hearing part of it, I think would be detrimental to the game itself.

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I think we somehow need to turn off the propellers for the parents when they come to junior tournaments.

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I think we, I hate to say, put a sign up, drop your kid off, let them check in and all that.

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But it gets done better if they do that, you know, they've all got cell phones at 10, 12

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years old already.

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And so what's the problem?

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You know, so I would like to see a little more of a traditional game stay in place because

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I think those are the avenues that I loved about the game of tennis.

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And to take them away, I think changes the dynamics of the game and just call it something

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else if you want to.

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Here's tennis and here's a tennis sub-tennis or whatever.

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Tennis sub-tennis is in a part where you can honk and horny and party and all that and

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you know, it's kind of funny.

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I heard Zraev talking about several of the players talking about a New York with an open

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marijuana state.

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They're smelling marijuana while they're playing.

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And I'm like, oh my God, I never thought of that one, but that is true.

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It's an open state.

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So you can do it in the park right next door and you know, and you know, deciphering

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when Mother Nature carries that cloud, bro.

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So let me interject here.

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I grew up in New York.

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I associate going to my first Yankee game.

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There's always something I associate with a Yankee game.

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That's a fight and the smell of marijuana.

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So that was in the 70s.

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I'd be like, man, we just got here.

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It's so pretty.

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Now that it's me, I read the same article you did.

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I laughed, but I was like, well, that was every sporting event I've ever went to in New

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York.

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That overwhelming plunge in aroma.

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I was like, I'll show you a way to get here.

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Yep, that's right.

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So in that case, Dave, your king of tennis is not something you would change, but it sounds

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like it's something you actually wouldn't change.

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And I can definitely appreciate that to say, hey, let's keep this one on one.

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Let's keep this mono-emano and whatever the phrase is for women that is mono-emano.

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We'll insert that later.

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I'm sure.

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But Dave, Matthews, thank you so much.

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I really appreciate your time.

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And well, like I said before, we're going to get you back on with the 10 minutes of tennis

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for the what to do, what to change.

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And we will get that you have to change is thanks for by the body after 60 years old because

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we just did the 40 years old one with Justin Yell.

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So Dave, I really appreciate it.

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Bobby is always.

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We'll see you guys next time.

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We'll see you guys.

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Take care.

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You too, Bobby.

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Take care.

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See you soon.

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Well, there you have it.

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We want to thank rejuvenate.com for use of the studio.

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And be sure to hit that follow button.

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For more tennis related content, you can go to Atlanta10ispodcast.com.

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And while you're there, check out our calendar of tennis events, the best deals on technifiber

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And with that, we're out.

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See you next time.

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