Episode#:30 Bobby Schindler and Shaun J Boyce
Allie Svabik
https://heytennislady.com
IG: @heytennislady
Shaun Boyce USPTA: [email protected]
https://tennisforchildren.com/ 🎾
Bobby Schindler USPTA: [email protected]https://windermerecommunity.net/ 🎾
Geovanna Boyce: [email protected]https://regeovinate.com/ 💪🏼🏋️
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Transcript
[MUSIC]
Speaker:Welcome to the Atlanta Tennis Podcast.
Speaker:Every episode is titled, It Starts With Tennis and Goes From There.
Speaker:We talk with coaches, club managers, industry business professionals,
Speaker:technology experts, and anyone else we find interesting.
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Speaker:[MUSIC]
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Speaker:where you can also find deals on equipment, apparel, and more.
Speaker:In this episode, we talk to Allie Svabik, who has started a new women's tennis
Speaker:league called Wine Down Wednesdays.
Speaker:They play on Wednesday afternoons.
Speaker:It only takes six ladies to field a team each week,
Speaker:so get your girls together and get registered before July 1st.
Speaker:And even get a discount as a GoTennis! member.
Speaker:Have a listen and let us know what you think.
Speaker:[MUSIC]
Speaker:Wine Down Wednesdays is a tennis league for women and do me a favor,
Speaker:do everybody a favor, tell us who you are and what the heck is this women's tennis
Speaker:league that you're doing.
Speaker:Yes, my name's Allie.
Speaker:I started and run the Wine Down Wednesday Women's Tennis League, which is under our tennis
Speaker:lady umbrella.
Speaker:So you can find us at paytennislady.com or at paytennislady on Facebook and Instagram,
Speaker:H-E-Y, because just tennislady.com was too expensive to start.
Speaker:[LAUGH]
Speaker:But yes, so it's a women's tennis league in Atlanta.
Speaker:Three lines of doubles on Wednesday nights for a five week season.
Speaker:We do two seasons a year and we're just about to start our next season on July 26th.
Speaker:So it's in between other women's tennis leagues in the area in between all the seasons,
Speaker:USDA seasons.
Speaker:But yeah, I started in 2019 and I've been growing season after season ever since.
Speaker:And in that case, Wednesday nights, I was just going to look that up, but I sent my computer
Speaker:haywire.
Speaker:Wednesday nights is what for Alton, USDA?
Speaker:Bobby, you run a club.
Speaker:You got to know what's going on Wednesday night.
Speaker:What are the leagues are going on there?
Speaker:Give it a season in Alton, USDA will come up with something.
Speaker:I think we're at Wednesday might be, I don't know if there's anything right now on Wednesday.
Speaker:I mean, we have men's senior, it's a senior at night, but I think it's ladies on Tuesday.
Speaker:And I think that guys might even play Friday or Thursday.
Speaker:I think Wednesday is an open night right now.
Speaker:So that might have been why she chose Wednesday, which would be good on her point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And yeah, so Thursday night is women's seniors in the summertime.
Speaker:And again, we don't overlap at that season either.
Speaker:But yeah, definitely wanted to do a weeknight concept.
Speaker:And that seemed to be open and the wine down Wednesday phrase was getting thrown around
Speaker:a lot just, you know, that's women's night out to drink some wine and hang with their friends.
Speaker:So why not do it at the tennis court?
Speaker:That's fantastic.
Speaker:And I know Bobby's got a thousand questions.
Speaker:He called me before I didn't say, what do we know?
Speaker:What do we not know?
Speaker:Is this an actual league?
Speaker:I said, Bobby, I think it's an actual league.
Speaker:And that's why I've been using that phrase of women's tennis league.
Speaker:It's not just introductory clinics.
Speaker:You don't, you actually have a season.
Speaker:You have teams.
Speaker:You have travel.
Speaker:You have a schedule.
Speaker:Did you do all of that?
Speaker:Yes, I do.
Speaker:Yeah, so very similar to a USDA team or an ALTA team where you would get enough girls to
Speaker:play together.
Speaker:In this case, you only need six each week to feel the full lineup.
Speaker:Then you would set your home court location.
Speaker:You only need two courts.
Speaker:And then you're placing a division with teams of the same level nearby.
Speaker:So I don't think that I confused when you started it, did you start it tied in with a clinic?
Speaker:We're going to do so many weeks of getting you prepared and then jump, you know, create
Speaker:the league.
Speaker:No, I mean, that's a great question because I do think that is the next product to launch
Speaker:because, you know, similar to, you know, a lot of the conversations that you guys have
Speaker:already had on the podcast, but there's definitely this need of individuals who are curious
Speaker:about tennis.
Speaker:Maybe they played before, haven't played for a while and just don't have anyone to play
Speaker:with or they see all their friends playing, but their friends are, you know, at a higher
Speaker:level and they need their own core group to get, get playing with.
Speaker:So some sort of program that brings them together each week, not just individual lessons and
Speaker:then, okay, good luck, find them a community to join, but takes them from zero to 60 and then
Speaker:once they learn the game or they feel comfortable playing matches again, you know, they can form
Speaker:a wine down Wednesday team smaller than some other leagues teams requirements now.
Speaker:And then they're kind of in the system at that point.
Speaker:So no, I would love to figure out who would be a good partner to do those types of clinics
Speaker:with, but that is not one of the products now.
Speaker:I think it needs to be though because we get a lot of people signing up as free agents and
Speaker:sometimes we're able to play some on teams or form teams with them together, but, you know,
Speaker:right now, don't have a solid product for them.
Speaker:If there's no one in their area looking for players, so yeah, that's important.
Speaker:And that's how you go the game.
Speaker:And when we spoke back in, you know, God, it's probably been about a month and a half ago already,
Speaker:but we've started conversating.
Speaker:One thing that I found very interesting in just the perspective of small geographic area,
Speaker:where I'm on the north side, take it for granted that every neighborhood has courts, you said
Speaker:you guys had court availability issues.
Speaker:Inside the perimeter for sure.
Speaker:You know, I have this great group of young ladies and brokhaven that were interested in picking
Speaker:up the sport and it's just hard to get access to courts.
Speaker:You know, the Sandy Springs Tennis Center has been very gracious with courts, but it's,
Speaker:you know, it's kind of a non-conversation with the other public courts inside the perimeter
Speaker:and that's tough because you see the demand and I understand, you know, everyone's running
Speaker:their own business and, you know, need to protect that customer base, but eventually you've got
Speaker:to have new blood coming in into those tennis centers to keep the game growing.
Speaker:Well, I agree with you.
Speaker:What would be the, I don't know why would a Sandy Springs not want you other than their
Speaker:capacity?
Speaker:Yeah, they got enough people taking privates with their coaches and, you know, that's
Speaker:a lot of people.
Speaker:I mean, not looking at their numbers.
Speaker:I don't know if that's, you know, a greater margin for them or, but it's just a set program
Speaker:and process and then anything new, you know, just like the pros and their tennis calendar
Speaker:is like you got to carve out your window and your time and, you know, try to make your, your
Speaker:stake on the court before someone else takes it or it turns into a pickleball court.
Speaker:Well, that's a good point.
Speaker:And their defense having started in the city public, you know, tennis center, I started at
Speaker:Chastain.
Speaker:The city also takes a decent chunk.
Speaker:And so yes, there are ways to increase your margin in a lesson more than just a rental
Speaker:court.
Speaker:So I get it because it is tough to make any kind of profit in tennis is unfortunately labor
Speaker:intensive.
Speaker:You could sit there and say, we're giving this many lessons, but you're paying that money
Speaker:out and it had a great majority of it.
Speaker:So it is tough on those guys.
Speaker:So I get it to a point, but like you said, I'm always looking for new blood.
Speaker:And again, we have a group of seniors at the subdivision, I work out.
Speaker:It's a 10 court facility and not very many of them are actual residents, but, you know,
Speaker:they're playing at a time of day with they're not bothering anybody.
Speaker:We love the blood.
Speaker:You know, and we pick them up in our teams.
Speaker:We charge a non-resident fee.
Speaker:So it's a way for the neighborhood to make a little bit of money.
Speaker:So I'm a little puzzled that have you spoken to and this was I'm going to date myself
Speaker:again, but the go to was always the post apartments that a lot of the post and I don't know
Speaker:if you know the apartments.
Speaker:I mean, like I said, I'm dating myself, but they were always, you know, they built with two
Speaker:tennis courts and lighted.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They were interested in being able to provide that kind of thing for their, you know, their
Speaker:residents.
Speaker:I haven't.
Speaker:I mean, it's a great idea.
Speaker:I've done a flex league season out of courts at a post apartment before.
Speaker:And it's certainly interesting, you know, the teams inside the perimeter that sign up, you
Speaker:know, kind of just by default go to all the tennis centers and it's, you know, I always
Speaker:try to ask them, are you sure that no one has a residential court that you can set as your
Speaker:home court location?
Speaker:Because I bet you they're free.
Speaker:And that was really as I was creating the league and coming up with the format.
Speaker:I mean, that's what I was seeing, right?
Speaker:In the three zero zero two two zip code, whereas it's the most all to teams of, you know,
Speaker:allegedly.
Speaker:But if you drive around a lot of these swimming tennis neighborhoods, their courts are,
Speaker:are still kind of empty because the neighborhoods that flipped over, they're not new anymore,
Speaker:as opposed to the neighborhoods now of North.
Speaker:So people that have fallen off or moved out of the neighborhood and the tennis scene,
Speaker:you know, there's not, it really takes someone to, you know, say, okay, well, we're going to
Speaker:try this again and we're going to try to get all the new neighbors together to play tennis
Speaker:again on our courts.
Speaker:So, you know, the league was very much, how do we kind of spark the demand for these courts
Speaker:again?
Speaker:Because they're open.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, you know, the two court format as opposed to needing five courts to get five lines
Speaker:in on a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker:Is it a two out of three sets match play or do you do something to shorten it a little
Speaker:bit or is it going to be all right?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So, and then we do no ad scoring.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So I do just receive a choice next point wins the game.
Speaker:And then if it does go to a third third set, it's replaced by a ten point tie break.
Speaker:So it's been fun.
Speaker:It really keeps the matches moving, you know, each match is probably about an hour and a half,
Speaker:which is a good time.
Speaker:So you're there from six to nine, you know, hopefully your neighborhood courts are courts
Speaker:nearby and, you know, you had a nice girls night out and then you can go home at a reasonable
Speaker:hour.
Speaker:You weren't waiting around all day for courts.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And if you had any head wind from USDA out again, we have spoken, you know, we've got
Speaker:taken out to we know one of the big, their things that they would love for somebody to take
Speaker:over is introducing new people into their system, you know, helping people, as you said,
Speaker:get introduced to the court, then how do you take it enough of another level, find a team
Speaker:and it would seem like, you know, you're a great starting place and you're not trying to
Speaker:compete with them.
Speaker:So it would seem like that would be a good fit for out to, you know, work with you guys.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I'm certainly open to the conversation.
Speaker:I haven't reached out to them and they haven't reached out to me.
Speaker:You know, I know they're not for profit and, you know, very much trying to make them full
Speaker:time gig.
Speaker:So it is for profit.
Speaker:So I don't know if that would be a conflict there, but, yeah, I think, I think what's great
Speaker:working on other industries, what I love most about tennis and working in tennis and
Speaker:you guys, your podcast and everything you're doing is kind of the epitome of this is there's
Speaker:so many opportunities to partner and work together because everyone's end goal is the
Speaker:same.
Speaker:If people get more people playing tennis and playing more often.
Speaker:I thought you were going to the right.
Speaker:But you know, other industries like I was selling advertising on the internet is like, you're
Speaker:all fighting for the same traffic in the same position on the page.
Speaker:So like you can't really partner with each other versus tennis.
Speaker:It's like, there's enough to go around and we all should work together and figure out how
Speaker:to, you know, enhance and grow the sport that we all love.
Speaker:But that's a great point.
Speaker:It's still, Bobby.
Speaker:I think we're both central people.
Speaker:We're bringing in the right people.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Either that or they're doing a little bit of research and they're actually paying, listening
Speaker:to some pretty good.
Speaker:They say, hey, is it a good thing to say?
Speaker:They're coming in like, hey, let's make tennis cool again.
Speaker:What do you think of that?
Speaker:Or, hey, we should all partner.
Speaker:Why aren't we getting along?
Speaker:And I think maybe, I don't know if we're changing the culture or in a way that people like
Speaker:or maybe the culture doesn't have to go as far as we thought.
Speaker:Maybe there are more people out there that want to get along with everybody and realize it's
Speaker:not a zero sum game and that we all can do what we do well and partner to get and do
Speaker:it all for the benefit of the sport.
Speaker:It's true.
Speaker:It's unfortunate that we come out of the culture, but as you said, just not knowing even the
Speaker:drawbacks of the guys who run the Sandy Springs, what they have, everybody has something they
Speaker:have to overcome.
Speaker:And that's the hard part because at the end of the day, everybody's bringing Shia to the
Speaker:table and it's hard to overlook what is yours worse than mine.
Speaker:These are all, or can we find a way where we can all help each other out and understand
Speaker:that this guy's going to be limited.
Speaker:I found that fascinating that you guys, we take it for granted, that there's so many
Speaker:courts up here that we can go to another one.
Speaker:There's a subdivision of cro-- literally on my street, Windomir Parkway, I have a big
Speaker:Chattanoche River Club, Windomir, James Creek, three chimneys all within maybe three miles
Speaker:of each other that there's 40 tennis courts within.
Speaker:I forgot Brandon Hall, which is another one, the 45-50 tennis courts within three miles
Speaker:of each other.
Speaker:And tons of teams, right?
Speaker:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker:Because they're newer, they're newer developments, so everyone moved in new together and that was
Speaker:how they socializes playing tennis.
Speaker:And you know, folks like yourself running programs out of there that keep everyone engaged
Speaker:in sort of like a can't miss.
Speaker:But the original boom of the suburbs in North Atlanta, that Alfredo-Raz, well, what I've
Speaker:experienced at least just personally is like, our neighborhood doesn't have all the teams
Speaker:anymore because people have aged shadow of the game, people are no longer in the neighborhood.
Speaker:There's no one that's like, we're going to form another sea team because there's all
Speaker:these new neighbors and that's how we'll get to know each other.
Speaker:So people start playing elsewhere but they still have the amenities.
Speaker:And yeah, I mean, I was getting nervous that people would, you know, just the pickleballers
Speaker:would take over because it's easier.
Speaker:And I think, you know, you kind of need people to still use those tennis courts to make sure
Speaker:that they stick around because, you know, any new developments in town or anything with
Speaker:right sides living, they're like smaller.
Speaker:So they might throw in a pickleball, but they never throw in tennis courts.
Speaker:Well, two tennis courts in a bathroom, I'll talk about it.
Speaker:So what is the demographic of your league?
Speaker:How, you know, the age range?
Speaker:Ladies, I would say late 20s, early 30s and then all the way up to, you know, mid 60s.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, we got some of the 70s that still ball.
Speaker:But they are my heroes.
Speaker:Because I was going to throw you a generational question as well as with the pickleball threat,
Speaker:which I don't look at as a threat.
Speaker:I think if tennis was smart, you could use pickleball to your advantage.
Speaker:How is it, you know, the instant gratification?
Speaker:So because tennis is, as you said, more difficult and easier to jump on a pickleball court
Speaker:and to get that going.
Speaker:I mean, I get that in my club all the time now.
Speaker:Why don't we start pickleball teams?
Speaker:And I'm like, you know, nobody's relics, I want to see how the first season goes before we
Speaker:jump in because I think that, you know, there's going to be some hiccups, obviously.
Speaker:So I'd rather wait till next year.
Speaker:But you know, do you see any of that that this is easier guys?
Speaker:I'm going to go play pickleball.
Speaker:From our ladies, no, they mainly, they're either not playing in other leagues and they're
Speaker:only playing wine down Wednesday.
Speaker:So they're at the beginner sea level.
Speaker:And the other lead formats just don't work with their schedule or they're playing everything.
Speaker:It's not, I don't see a lot of people jumping over to pickleball with our players.
Speaker:I think some, you know, probably dabble and do it socially, which is what's great about
Speaker:that.
Speaker:But yeah, I mean, definitely jealous of pickleballs, barrier to entry compared to tennis is
Speaker:out love to be able to, my friends and people that are just curious about tennis have a proper
Speaker:way for them to try it and enjoy it versus needing like this huge ramp up of lessons and
Speaker:coordination.
Speaker:Which is hard to acquire in 30, you know?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Hopefully that's happening already.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, tennis is just the backdrop.
Speaker:What people are looking for is a community and a group of girls to get together every week
Speaker:to let their husbands take care of their kids and just go out and have some girl time and
Speaker:not worried about how are they going to fit in this new hobby with all their other kids'
Speaker:activities or things like that.
Speaker:Common quality, absolutely.
Speaker:That's one of our big themes.
Speaker:We tend to see the commonality that we share, but there's a lot of other things that go
Speaker:on, even from the social aspects.
Speaker:So you said, I'm much older, but it doesn't mean I don't want to go out at night or see
Speaker:something new.
Speaker:And yeah, what is, what else?
Speaker:And I think that's a huge opportunity for the tennis community that's really never been
Speaker:addressed.
Speaker:You know, how do we take 60,000 tennis players that we all know they're tennis players?
Speaker:So they have one thing in common and do something else.
Speaker:And even if you get 1% of those 60,000, it's a big number.
Speaker:That's still a pretty decent party.
Speaker:Why isn't more of that happen?
Speaker:So I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:And it was important for me to keep a team aspect as opposed to the flex leagues out there
Speaker:or just going out and playing singles.
Speaker:Because that's part of my story is how I picked up the game, joining my mom's tennis team
Speaker:and really loved the multi-generations and hearing from other women, just their wisdom versus
Speaker:kind of just being thrown out there on a singles court just to play tennis.
Speaker:There's not really that camaraderie.
Speaker:So it was really important for me to keep the team aspect together for women, but figure
Speaker:out a faster, more realistic way for people to get a group together.
Speaker:I mean, I always say, I don't even know if I have 10 friends, let alone that 10 friends
Speaker:that play tennis and at my level to go out there and form a team and hope everyone's
Speaker:available each week.
Speaker:And I was seeing a lot of people fall off because there's so many challenges with making
Speaker:that form at work.
Speaker:And I think it's been, you know, Alta's numbers reflect that.
Speaker:I mean, you throw in an aging population, as you said, demographic changing as far as the
Speaker:building and the way you're being introduced, then you throw a pandemic into the loop and
Speaker:you lost a lot of folks.
Speaker:And so now how are we going to--
Speaker:I helped them, actually.
Speaker:That's the big argument with tennis.
Speaker:Did it help tennis participation?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Did it bring new people to the sport?
Speaker:Probably not.
Speaker:I always laughed at, we used to do summer camps in my white comms when I was at white comms.
Speaker:And I never saw any of those kids after summer camps were over because it was a babysitting
Speaker:service.
Speaker:Half a day.
Speaker:So they were there to accomplish one thing.
Speaker:Yes, the pandemic.
Speaker:You wanted to do something.
Speaker:Tennis was obviously a very safe place.
Speaker:Once the pandemic is over and the league start doesn't change the entry barriers.
Speaker:And now that Walmart $90 bracket isn't really appropriate if you're going to try to improve.
Speaker:So it introduced, I don't know if we capitalized on the opportunity because of the entry barriers,
Speaker:as you said.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:And that kind of goes back to that new product that needs to be launched.
Speaker:It's like, definitely saw more people taking drills.
Speaker:But was that like a one in done because they showed up with a drill, hit the ball around.
Speaker:There was nothing to foster that community.
Speaker:They weren't like, OK, you same people are coming back next week.
Speaker:And by the end of this four or eight week, whatever session that they paid for, you'll know
Speaker:how to play and you'll have a group of people to play with.
Speaker:It was more like Joe for drills and see you later.
Speaker:And they were the attendance was great, right?
Speaker:Which is awesome.
Speaker:But, you know, it's like any hobby.
Speaker:If you don't have people to deal with or people to talk to about it, it's easy to forget.
Speaker:If we only had a network of coaches, maybe a network of coaches and a calendar all in one
Speaker:place where the drills are and we could all get, we only had that somewhere.
Speaker:One where.
Speaker:Well, yeah, I mean, I think what you guys are doing is great.
Speaker:And the coaches, you know, they don't, I mean, it's supplying the van, right?
Speaker:So they already have their schedule full of privates and existing teams.
Speaker:And so how are they going to, you know, allocate more bandwidth to, well, maybe this group will
Speaker:work out and, you know, be a long term investment, but it's just too tough, you know, especially
Speaker:during COVID when people, you know, were coming to the courts more often.
Speaker:So again, that goes, but as you said, all the little intricacies of the industry itself that
Speaker:you look at say, well, because most of our coaches are independent contractors.
Speaker:They don't have a club.
Speaker:They don't have a salary.
Speaker:The only time they're making money is when they're on the court.
Speaker:So yes, in a short term, everybody's looking at when I interview somebody, how many hours
Speaker:do you get for me?
Speaker:And that's like you're, you're not getting the job if that's one of your first three questions
Speaker:because you're not looking long term.
Speaker:You're looking, you know, how do you get passed tomorrow?
Speaker:And yes, there has to be a degree of that, but you, if you're going to do this as a career,
Speaker:you have to think a little bit more long term and you have to think about how do we
Speaker:build a program?
Speaker:How do we create that community?
Speaker:And I completely agree with you.
Speaker:I mean, I came in, I was fortunate to be like the person who started White Collins.
Speaker:So for better or worse, they were stuck with what my ideas were in the culture to coming
Speaker:in following somebody at Windomir.
Speaker:And it took a few years to change the culture.
Speaker:And I always love that when we started, I would always play music on the court.
Speaker:You know, when you come in, you're here in 70s and 80s music.
Speaker:You know what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker:And in the beginning, oh, it's loud.
Speaker:I can't concentrate.
Speaker:And I was, as I said yesterday in the podcast, you know, hey, if you want to play with you,
Speaker:it's open.
Speaker:You got to use the planes over your head.
Speaker:A little bit of noise is going to bother you.
Speaker:Now, so many years later, everybody brings their own little speaker for their court.
Speaker:So you have 10 courts with 10 different types of music.
Speaker:So the culture is much more energetic.
Speaker:You know what you're getting into.
Speaker:And it's funny when we get people who come in from other places, you know, they used to
Speaker:complain, now they, oh, no, we love it.
Speaker:We love it.
Speaker:So, but it takes time.
Speaker:And like you said, if you're looking at the threat of losing money, you know, coaches pull
Speaker:the plug quick if they feel threatened because there is another one right next door who's
Speaker:willing to undercut the price and, you know, the other thing that we're trying to do is promote
Speaker:the idea of the certified coach that there is a difference.
Speaker:You know, the guy who's got a ball hopper who says, you know, everybody back in the day we
Speaker:used to laugh was the number one player in Georgia.
Speaker:Well, how did Georgia have so many number one players if everybody was number one?
Speaker:So somebody was, excuse me, lying, but you know, what are the differentiators for the pros?
Speaker:And it's taken a while for the USPTN, the USPTR, the certification branches to up their
Speaker:game.
Speaker:But now they do require background checks.
Speaker:They do make you take the class, you know, the Olympic harassment classes to make sure
Speaker:that you have an understanding.
Speaker:You know, they do make you take continuing education.
Speaker:So you're not teaching the continental grip for hand because you grew up in the 70s and
Speaker:that's what you know.
Speaker:So you know, that's the other part too is how we're going to change the game is show people
Speaker:that there is a difference.
Speaker:This is why you want to get involved.
Speaker:And hopefully you'll make it more easier to learn and enhance everyone's experience.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And from, you know, a lady's perspective, yes, I don't want to learn inaccurate forehand,
Speaker:but you're paying for entertainment, you know, you're not really there to, you know, be
Speaker:on the fast track to go pros.
Speaker:Yeah, you're going to win.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And again, like you can only buy something that's a product and available.
Speaker:And I think that's what's great about your guys and calendar is you're giving, you know,
Speaker:coaches the opportunity to products, productize what they do.
Speaker:And this is how someone can find out about me and know its legit and go in and, you know,
Speaker:book and plan for sessions that I'm free versus like, you know, oh, I know so and so.
Speaker:And here's his number.
Speaker:It's, you know, a little bit less professional.
Speaker:So yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think the USDA holds a lot of power there.
Speaker:And I know they have tried several programs and you know, that tennis apprentice program,
Speaker:I think is kind of the closest thing I've seen to it.
Speaker:And it's just a matter of, well, how do we, if it's a public court, how is that mandatory?
Speaker:Because that's, that's important that everyone kind of picks that on and start having standard
Speaker:programs no matter where you are.
Speaker:So as a tennis player, when someone asks you, how do I get into it?
Speaker:It's like, boom, that's how you get into it.
Speaker:Well, hopefully at some point everybody says, go to, go to let's go tennis.com find something.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because at some point, yeah, you look, you look at USDA and they're going to have certain
Speaker:programs and certain places.
Speaker:Some of it's going to work.
Speaker:Some of it's not.
Speaker:A. Well, so none of the coaches are jumping in, raising their hands and, ooh, meek.
Speaker:Will you under pay me to teach tennis?
Speaker:Mm-hm.
Speaker:So we've got some limitations there.
Speaker:And from what I'm hearing, Bobby again, it seems to be the theme.
Speaker:And I don't know why I'm a little bit surprised today because this is why we got in, why
Speaker:we started having these conversations in the first place is that people are struggling
Speaker:to find teams.
Speaker:There are lots of courts in the suburbs that are unused and people are struggling to find
Speaker:drills and lessons and really somebody they can connect with or somebody that can coach
Speaker:them that is certified, that doesn't show up, that they're comfortable with, that maybe
Speaker:has already been bedded and that they can not just a simple referral.
Speaker:In this case, it's a well-fed certified pro.
Speaker:So the question being, does an Alta have all these, they've had all these problems and
Speaker:Alta's had thousands of years to figure it out and they haven't.
Speaker:USDA has millions of dollars and thousands of years to figure it out and they have it.
Speaker:Bobby, what makes us think that we've got this figured out?
Speaker:Well, I don't think that we know we haven't figured out.
Speaker:It's the implementation part is the challenge.
Speaker:I don't fall to Alta because Alta is frustrating as it is, tells you point blank, we are a leak.
Speaker:That's what we do.
Speaker:And we hear you, but that's now what we do.
Speaker:Now the governing body of the sport in the country, they might have some culpability, but
Speaker:again, they have to come concise with a business model and I think they've been not really
Speaker:good at doing that.
Speaker:That's about the best way I can put it.
Speaker:You've got to decide who you want to be when you grow up.
Speaker:And they have never been able to reconcile, are we raising champions, which at our best we
Speaker:had, let's go to the San Chris Chang, we had four guys in the top 10.
Speaker:Okay, four, how many millions of people live in this country?
Speaker:Do we want the hundreds of millions playing tennis or do we want to watch four?
Speaker:Well, watching four really didn't do a lot for the sport, so you would think we should
Speaker:change our focus a little bit.
Speaker:And use the Elon, I'm sorry, the Jordan Peterson theory of if we have enough people born, we will
Speaker:solve the global energy problem because one of those kids is bound to be a genius and he'll
Speaker:figure it out.
Speaker:That was, that's a great idea.
Speaker:Okay, that's not the big deal.
Speaker:Nobody ever considered this.
Speaker:We have enough kids.
Speaker:One of them is bound to be bright.
Speaker:So we could, we could hope for that in Atlanta with so much exposure to tennis for so long,
Speaker:maybe somebody will figure it out again, it goes back even in this city, you think about
Speaker:it, all the pros paranoid, we don't want you walking on our court, traffic is a bear in
Speaker:this city.
Speaker:Yeah, I might want to go to, I mean, we had passes to go yesterday to the Atlanta open and
Speaker:meet Ryan O'Palka.
Speaker:And I'm not going to, in Lanark station at three o'clock in the afternoon, I live 35 miles
Speaker:away.
Speaker:I know as much as that was entertaining and a fun idea, I have a daughter, I got to pick
Speaker:up, I can't do it.
Speaker:So I think that, for the people who are going to do it, they're going to do it.
Speaker:And that's great, that's, because they're going to talk to their base and if they draw one
Speaker:or two and again, and I think that's where tennis pros need to, in the industry, used
Speaker:to wake up.
Speaker:You're not going to lose that much business.
Speaker:Hopefully you're going to create more business because there's more people playing, more
Speaker:energy, the idea of making tennis cool again, that I can go out and talk about it.
Speaker:And you know, just find other, I don't want to play an out to league, it takes too long.
Speaker:Oh, well, they go play Wine Wednesday.
Speaker:You're done, you're getting the same camaraderie.
Speaker:I mean, as I said, I was laugh about, you know, this is a bowling league in New York.
Speaker:Well, we've bowled every day.
Speaker:There was a different league every night of the week in New York at your local bowling
Speaker:alley.
Speaker:You know, we just blessed with good weather down here, so it's tennis.
Speaker:Why are we so paranoid?
Speaker:And I, you know, I don't know, again, I'd love for somebody to do the psychological
Speaker:aspects.
Speaker:It's an individual sport.
Speaker:Does that affect because the people that are in it have been in a cocoon for so long
Speaker:that it's hard to see big picture?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Obviously, that's where I plead the fifth and have no idea.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So I mean, I didn't come from tennis.
Speaker:I played volleyball through college when I knew you were going to college.
Speaker:Well, New York, I went to Maris College and I saw that the red fox is.
Speaker:I've been waiting for that in.
Speaker:Did I have pictures in the Duncan Dutchman all over the point?
Speaker:I didn't make Smith.
Speaker:Rick Smith.
Speaker:I didn't believe anything I was saying.
Speaker:Duncan Dutchman, Center for the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Was it red fox?
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:We're very proud.
Speaker:But yeah, so when I moved back to Atlanta, you know, my mom would just invite me to go
Speaker:watch her tennis matches.
Speaker:And I was like, it seems like the least I can do since you've watched every match in
Speaker:mind throughout my whole life.
Speaker:And then I realized it was, you know, a neighborhood black party.
Speaker:So I would go to their beer, hang out, you know, have a lot of fun.
Speaker:And eventually that's how I got into it.
Speaker:They invited me to join the team, started playing, caught the bug.
Speaker:But you know, I think that experience playing all other sports and even now playing, you know,
Speaker:college, San volleyball league, softball leagues, like seeing how those captains, I love my
Speaker:captains.
Speaker:I love the way they play for those leagues, but they really just tell us what time to be there.
Speaker:They show up, flip the coin and now we're underway.
Speaker:Seeing what effort it takes to do tennis as a team in a league is wild.
Speaker:So yeah, I mean, had I grown up playing tennis, I'd probably have, you know, quite a different
Speaker:perspective, but not playing tennis and finding it later and kind of comparing it to my other
Speaker:experiences in adult sports.
Speaker:That's, that's a lot of the inspiration behind Wine Down Wednesday.
Speaker:Well, what we've learned to fortify what you're saying is a lot of play, first of all, we
Speaker:were, I think we had Luke Jensen, we spoke to Luke and he told us that 70% of division
Speaker:one tennis players never play tennis again after they leave college.
Speaker:So that number one is a really horrifying statistic in my mind that they're so burned
Speaker:out that that's the last time they touch the rackets is 22, 23 years old.
Speaker:So that's horrifying.
Speaker:The other reassuring when we asked the question, we'll ask you in a little bit about the
Speaker:king of Queen of tennis, a lot of the replies have been doing things in a team format either
Speaker:on the professional recreationals that people, again, we want that camaraderie.
Speaker:As adults, we, you know, what do you lose when you go to school?
Speaker:Commonality.
Speaker:We're all, we all stinkin' algebra.
Speaker:So we have that, we're in the bunker mentality.
Speaker:I don't want to go to algebra, I hate history, whatever it is.
Speaker:So we have a commonality and as you get older, the commonalities become, unfortunately,
Speaker:just for adults is just your children.
Speaker:Oh, you know, what, what were you driving today?
Speaker:Oh, they got practice at this.
Speaker:They got practice.
Speaker:Well, you kind of have a life, you know, it's not, it's not fair for the kids and it's certainly
Speaker:not fair for the parents that you got to continue to function and find something for yourself.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And...
Speaker:Well, you're on the right track.
Speaker:So how many folks do you have playing and how do people find out, you know, what has been
Speaker:your most effective way of getting new people to find out about you?
Speaker:It's a great question.
Speaker:So we just closed our early registration where you get $5 off reviews.
Speaker:We already have 40 teams signed up for the next season.
Speaker:So it's going to be our biggest yet.
Speaker:And hopefully they continue to keep coming the rest of June.
Speaker:Our cutoff date is July 1st.
Speaker:And like I said, the season will start July 26.
Speaker:But it's like anything, you know, no one really takes action unless their friend told them
Speaker:about it or told you and it's a trusted source.
Speaker:So I feel like I can scream on social media, blast out a lot of emails.
Speaker:But really, you know, how do you find out about it?
Speaker:Oh, you know, my friend told me is the most common.
Speaker:So yeah, we do all that.
Speaker:We're, you know, on social, do a lot of conversions and email, hop into the Atlanta tennis players,
Speaker:Facebook group and other groups around town just to get the brand out there.
Speaker:But yeah, it's usually someone will tell them or, you know, we're so blessed to have such
Speaker:great captains.
Speaker:You know, I try to get away from using the term captain because it's got such a negative connotation
Speaker:in all their leagues and calling my fearless leaders.
Speaker:But really, that's what it takes.
Speaker:It takes someone to say, we're going to do this.
Speaker:Come on, ladies.
Speaker:You know, I got the courts and we're ready.
Speaker:And they do such a great job and they make it fun.
Speaker:They bring the speakers to play music.
Speaker:They take pride in their playlists.
Speaker:They want to share it with the opponents.
Speaker:You know, they come up with fun things like theme nights to do, you know, amongst their teammates,
Speaker:just to keep it light.
Speaker:And so we try to reward them as much as possible and give them gifts and encourage them to,
Speaker:you know, keep coming back season after season.
Speaker:And yeah, I mean, because we don't have teams without them and certainly don't have a league
Speaker:without teams.
Speaker:But yeah, it's definitely the referrals that keep us going.
Speaker:We offer a free season each time someone refers a new team.
Speaker:So that's an incentive.
Speaker:And what we'll notice is a lot of the new teams, they'll have a lot of people in their roster,
Speaker:you know, first season.
Speaker:Just kind of, that's the mentality again.
Speaker:Like we need this many people because even though people are signing up to do something,
Speaker:they're not going to be committed to it.
Speaker:And then once they realize they don't need that many people, they'll break off with the
Speaker:two teams or they'll recommend the league to their neighbors that play at a different
Speaker:level.
Speaker:So we see a lot of a lot of bad each season getting new teams.
Speaker:How is the drive time?
Speaker:Where are you, you know, where do geographically is the heart of your program?
Speaker:How far do you go south?
Speaker:How far do you go north?
Speaker:How far east and west?
Speaker:So, you know, very much up 400 are for this team's north are incoming.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:She's got your surrounded, Bobby.
Speaker:I think my ladies would love this.
Speaker:And again, they're playing it at a time.
Speaker:I mean, our ladies are at a point where they're doing flex league amongst themselves.
Speaker:I mean, I know there's a flex league across the street.
Speaker:I know that a guy at Atlanta, what Atlanta, you know, one of the Atlanta's, I don't know,
Speaker:developed his own software for it.
Speaker:So there is a need.
Speaker:I mean, it's not impeding on Alta.
Speaker:It's just a little smaller, a little more quaint, a little more fun.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because it's a little more, you know, it's smaller, more intimate.
Speaker:You can do crazy things.
Speaker:I mean, my daughter just told me, I'm thinking about it, you know, Taylor Swift's concert tour
Speaker:is called "Ears."
Speaker:And all the girls are literally dressing as Taylor Swift at the various point for the different
Speaker:albums they were representing.
Speaker:And my daughter said, oh, well, somebody came up with something.
Speaker:Nobody knew.
Speaker:They dressed up like her character in the Lorax.
Speaker:That, you know, she was one of the main characters.
Speaker:Oh, that's a great idea.
Speaker:But I mean, you could literally have somebody dressed up as Martina, Hinges, Huna, Pratillo,
Speaker:Vakras, Vakras, Vakon, Bore, Giammi, it would be a blast.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They'll be like 80s, night, or, you know, for a night.
Speaker:I mean, let's face it.
Speaker:Like, that's also why I got any attendance with the clothes.
Speaker:And that's what girls wanted to do for a girls night out.
Speaker:Just having an excuse to get dressed up and go do something.
Speaker:But, you think of somebody drove, do you think of somebody drove a truck to your facility
Speaker:where you were playing with clothes in it, with the girls would be excited about that?
Speaker:Would that make them feel like, well, this is something different?
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:Yeah, like we'll bring wine, like, surprise people with wine, send up pizzas, you know, just
Speaker:things to keep everyone engaged.
Speaker:We do a cocktail contest every season.
Speaker:So we get sponsors for that.
Speaker:And basically, it's just a way for people to take a team photo and show off their team
Speaker:on social media.
Speaker:You know, so we do that.
Speaker:And it's been a blast.
Speaker:I mean, I'm amazed at how creative people can be, whether it's their team name or their
Speaker:cocktail or anything.
Speaker:And it's just great to have a backdrop for them to funnel that too.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:But yeah, as far as South, as, I guess, the Buckhead area, so that's North and South, East
Speaker:and West, we go over to like, Smurna vines, Woodstock, just had a team sign up for Buford.
Speaker:So, you know, got to grow in that area as well.
Speaker:Need to get over into the Decatur area.
Speaker:The cab can get some courts, but yeah.
Speaker:That's a tough spot.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, like you guys, we're saying, drive time, as we survey each season is the number one thing
Speaker:people want to be close.
Speaker:You know, it's drive time, then close matches in terms of competitiveness and then new opponents.
Speaker:You know, it's not, it's not the other way around, which I feel like sometimes we get focused
Speaker:on.
Speaker:So, that's the challenges is getting enough people in their pockets at their level to give
Speaker:them, you know, a proper division where they're not driving super far, but that's any
Speaker:leagues challenge.
Speaker:So, have you ever thought, because this is, this was again, very aged idea, but when we
Speaker:were thinking about dipping our toe in years and years ago, having just designating, going
Speaker:to four facilities, and this way, say, look, I need Wednesdays, I'm going to bring you
Speaker:six courts.
Speaker:And this, you know, when you sign up that you can pick from these facilities, and this
Speaker:is your home site.
Speaker:Yeah, I would love, love that option.
Speaker:I mean, I guess this is the USDA's poll when Red Hair and now Stillfire Brewing League launched.
Speaker:They like, overtook all the public kind of facilities, which is awesome, because I know
Speaker:I could fill them if I was given the courts.
Speaker:So yeah, it, that would be great.
Speaker:But right now, it's, it's definitely trying to revitalize some of the existing Swim tennis
Speaker:courts that are around, because the public courts just are tough right now.
Speaker:And I think, you know, COVID, the boom with COVID and just people booking in and playing in
Speaker:different flex leagues and things like that.
Speaker:Obviously, they didn't have as much available anymore, but also just trying to figure out,
Speaker:like who's running the show at each beyond the city and convincing them to have your back.
Speaker:So I'm very, you know, grateful to Sandy Springs and the folks I know over there for, for helping
Speaker:me out.
Speaker:But yeah, they want to give us more courts will, will fill them.
Speaker:Very good, very good.
Speaker:All right, Shawn, you, you got the big question.
Speaker:I bet you she's got an answer for us too.
Speaker:I'm curious of this one.
Speaker:We, we get a chance to ask everybody if you were King or Queen of tennis.
Speaker:And we've had more Queens recently, I think, Bobby, but if you were Queen of tennis, is there
Speaker:anything you would do, whether it's a day, a year, however long it would take, you get to
Speaker:answer however you'd like.
Speaker:If it's just an Atlanta or for the whole world, professional amateur, however you want to
Speaker:look at it.
Speaker:But if you were Queen of tennis, is there anything you would do or change?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I think we touched on it early, but offering that product for someone who's curious about
Speaker:tennis or wants to get back into it after taking time off where they can go to a public facility,
Speaker:sign up for a session with other people and go from zero to 60.
Speaker:Now they know how to play.
Speaker:They can play on their own.
Speaker:And there's a community of people that they can play with.
Speaker:And if that was required at just in Atlanta, at Bitsy, Chastain, DeKab, St.Vee Springs,
Speaker:all these different Blackburn, all these different public tennis centers where it's not just
Speaker:beginner drills and no sort of community building.
Speaker:I think that would be awesome.
Speaker:And then from there, you would form doubles parings that could then play a flex league,
Speaker:groups of women's that could then go play Wine Down Wednesday, a bunch of mixed teams,
Speaker:like that that would just continue to perpetuate what we have in Atlanta.
Speaker:And I think it would be applicable around the country as well.
Speaker:I mean, I think that's what you get when you join a country club, right?
Speaker:You get that kind of programming or when someone's running the tennis facilities in your
Speaker:neighborhood.
Speaker:And that's kind of what needs to be available at the public courts.
Speaker:So that would be number one for me.
Speaker:And obviously, I'm selfish because I want more teams coming out of that.
Speaker:But then I also am very jealous of other sports that can have that low barrier to entry,
Speaker:like we were talking about, that just gets people thinking about the sport, even if they're
Speaker:not ready to commit and try to play it yet.
Speaker:So like the bowling alleys, the top golf, the pickle and chicken, we're going to go out
Speaker:to a bar and like, oh, I didn't notice that there was a beach volleyball court at this
Speaker:bar.
Speaker:And I'm thinking about beach volleyball tennis needs that.
Speaker:And it's hard because it requires a lot more coordination.
Speaker:And I don't know what the model would be, but it would be awesome if someone could figure
Speaker:it out.
Speaker:I guess the closest thing that got was like we tennis when people were playing that all
Speaker:the time in their own homes.
Speaker:But there's so much now, like, you know, with simulators and things of that nature that,
Speaker:you know, again, people just knight out whether they throw in axes or something while they're
Speaker:drinking beer and having a good time and that sport kind of gets mentioned during those
Speaker:times.
Speaker:So yeah, that would be cool.
Speaker:Well, there you have it.
Speaker:We want to thank rejuvenate.com for use of the studio.
Speaker:And be sure to hit that follow button.
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Speaker:And you should feel good knowing that shopping at Let's Go Tennis.com helps support this
Speaker:show.
Speaker:You can also donate directly using links in the show notes.
Speaker:And with that, we're out.
Speaker:See you next time.
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