Episode:#49 Shaun Boyce & Bobby Schindler

In this episode we talk to Andres Robelo, CEO and founder of playbypoint a software service for club management. With a consistent focus on helping clubs connect directly with their audience, playbypoint offers the ability to personalize the service to each club’s needs.

For more: https://www.playbypoint.com/

More about Andres: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andresrobelo/

https://www.facebook.com/playbypoint

https://www.instagram.com/playbypoint/

Shaun Boyce USPTA: [email protected]

https://tennisforchildren.com/ ๐ŸŽพ

Bobby Schindler USPTA: [email protected]

https://windermerecommunity.net/ ๐ŸŽพ

Geovanna Boyce: [email protected]

https://regeovinate.com/ ๐Ÿ’ช๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‹๏ธ

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Transcript
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(upbeat music)

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Welcome to the Atlanta Tennis Podcast.

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Every episode is titled, "It Starts With Tennis"

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and goes from there.

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We talk with coaches, club managers,

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industry business professionals, technology experts,

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and anyone else we find interesting.

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We wanna have a conversation as long as it starts with tennis.

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(soft music)

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- Hey, hey, this is Shaun with the Atlanta Tennis Podcast,

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powered by GoTennis!

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Check out our calendar of Metro Atlanta Tennis events

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at LetsGoTennis.com,

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where you can also find deals on equipment, apparel,

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and free members get 10% off our shop.

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So go get yourself an Atlanta Tennis Monster's shirt,

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or even the Daniel Medvedev La Cost Shoes

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at 25% off for paid members.

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In this episode, we talk to Andres Robelo,

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who is the CEO and founder of Play By Point,

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a software platform for club management.

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Their mission is to empower clubs

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to connect directly with their audience,

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which probably influences his king of tennis answer

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toward the end of the conversation.

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Have a listen and let us know what you think.

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(soft music)

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- So my name is Andres, right?

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A, you know, originally born in Miami,

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but grew up in Nicaragua, so Latin America,

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or Central American, in this case.

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How it relates to you guys, you know,

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been tennis player in my whole life.

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So obviously tennis has always been in my bloods,

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it's created a lot of opportunities for me

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in terms of friendships, relationships, fitness,

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all that, so it's always been a part of it.

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And I'll start with that way,

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just because it's interrelated to how we got to Play By Point.

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And, you know, once I graduated high school,

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I went to college in the US, played D3 tennis, right?

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Nothing too good per se in that case,

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but it had fun, I always kept kind of my tennis blood in there.

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After that, I went to a small liberal arts school

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in Pennsylvania, and then a transfer to the University of Miami.

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Right?

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My focus was never around technology,

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it was more oriented in finance.

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You know, I worked for, you know, private wealth management firm,

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then when I did that, I was still in college.

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And, you know, I said, I don't wanna do finance,

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you know, that's something that I'm not too passionate about.

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I feel like I'm not producing anything,

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so I need to go into operations.

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And that led me to my first job out of college,

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which was in an operations role in a restaurant industry.

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Right? And part of the training is that we have to spend

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the first six to eight months at the actual restaurant

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handling the whole operation, right?

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And I'm saying this because that was my first interaction

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with the point of sale system, which is what we are today, right?

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And that experience of being on a day-to-day,

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learning how this little computer was essential,

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not essential, but critical to the quality of the customer service

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and customer care, and most importantly,

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the experience of the staff, right?

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And how a bad design product could really make your life miserable

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or enjoyable, right?

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Per-sham that case.

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So that began kind of my, you know, kind of what planted the seed.

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And there's always been an affinity.

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This was 2012.

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And, you know, technology, I've always, you know,

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always loved technology, you know,

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always been passionate about it.

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And after that, I took a job at more

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an investing role in technology.

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And when I was living in Miami, I couldn't get a court, right?

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I was trying to book a court, not even book a court,

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I was trying to go play, right?

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And whenever I would just try to find a court,

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I would have to go in there.

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Usually as a lot of, you know, at public parks,

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Per-sham that case, and we'd have to wait

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for a year or so, Per-sham that case, right?

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So I would get out of work at 7 or 6.30, change, run, drive.

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I would get to the court, and I wouldn't plan till 9, right?

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And that happened over enough times

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that it stopped playing tennis, right?

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It's like, look, I don't have, I'm not saying I don't have time for this,

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but it's very, you know, very cumbersome in that case.

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And I stopped playing tennis for about three years.

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And then, you know, it's on and off, right?

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I used to play three times a week, et cetera.

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And then, you know, I kind of stopped that cadence, Per-sham that case.

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And that kind of led to the, not the likeable moment

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because it doesn't come that way, but it came to look, you know,

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sport, I love, you know, half of my friendships are through tennis,

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growing up, you know, it kept me physically active,

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helped me deal with a lot of life, you know,

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when you're in a match and you're down to set,

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you need to come back.

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So again, there's a lot of analogies that even being as an entrepreneur,

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a solo entrepreneur, right?

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Most importantly, I've been able to draw from, right?

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Where, as you guys know, right, the physical part of tennis is obviously important,

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but the mental is really what takes you across, you know,

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from being good to great Per-sham that case.

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So, with that passion and all those analogies in mind,

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I said, you know what, let's, let me come up with something,

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you know, we, you know, I, we think we, we, there's an opportunity here.

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This was 2015, Per-sham that case, Uber was coming up,

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Airbnb was coming up, I could pay with my parking on my phone,

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and I'm like, guys, what, you know, I,

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why can't I just book my court?

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It's simple, like it's, it's, it's, it's that simple.

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And obviously, I knew nothing about the business, right?

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So, and that was kind of the biggest revelation.

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I knew nothing.

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And I, and I started that process and I made two big mistakes.

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One is I chose my first, I, first I looked how I was going to build this, right?

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So, I, I went out, I looked for a team and we set out to build what they call an MVP.

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Let me build something based, but before I got and build it,

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let me get the first client, right?

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Let me get the first customer because if not, you know,

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I'm not going to build something and then they're going to come.

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That, it doesn't work that way.

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So, little did I know I chose my first customer to be a city, right?

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Again, I used to play, I used to live by, or work by Coral Gables.

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So, I got Cedal Coral Gables.

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There's a bit more Salvador Park where the junior orange ball is held.

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And we, you know, I spent eight months going to the commissioners telling them,

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I'm here advocating for us tennis players that we need a technology solution

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to just make the booking experience better.

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So, after, you know, I would, you know, wake up early,

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be at 7 a.m. at the commissioners office and trying to get a meeting with all four of them,

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try to convince them, spend eight months, and finally, one commissioner told me,

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let me get you a meeting with the tennis director and IT.

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And that was kind of the, the beginning of this process.

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And then from there, it was another six months trying to convince IT,

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why they should do it?

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We told them, guys, it's going to be free.

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You know, right now when you go to the club and people, you know, it's 20 or 2023,

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and in 2016, you know, and if you obviously you guys know how things used to be run,

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but the way they were ran at this park, and that was, um,

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prevailing across all most tennis clubs, right?

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Not all of them because the technology wasn't there yet.

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Everyone would call in at 7 a.m.

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They would leave a voicemail because they're not answering at 7 a.m.

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Then all the lines came up, then the lady that worked there, right?

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That you know, the front best staff that are dear to all our hearts because they're the,

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they're the heart of the operation, right?

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We know them, they become our friends, and they're part of the experience.

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They come in there, they spend two hours listening to the voicemail,

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putting it on a piece of paper.

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Once it fills up, they start building the queue,

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and go on and so forth, right?

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So if you cancel, you know, so then that's all that that probably then

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back was, hey guys, let me help you, right?

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And and that began kind of our journey and that was how

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played a fun fact.

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Pay by court was born, okay?

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So we've had three name changes or two name changes in our history.

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So that's how pay by court came to be.

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And we launched in January of 2017,

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with the help of, you know, the city of Coral Gables, I'll do a mention, Robert Gomez,

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over at the Billmore and Salvador, and they they bet on us, right?

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They they gave us that trust to go in there and try to help out the tennis community.

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And and the whole spirit and the birth of the, I'll start with the idea, but of the company now is

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we want to enrich people's everyday lives, right?

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Whether it's be the player, the staff, or everyone that touches our product.

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And that and at that time it was, we want to keep that keep the sport alive, right?

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The sport that has given all of us and I assume people that are in the industry were here because

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there is a passion for the sport and it has given us opportunity and and it's something that just,

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you know, goes through your blood soon, you know, from the first time they put in raggedown use.

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So the whole ethos was we want to expand the playing opportunities, right?

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We want more people to go on court, make it a better experience, and our bet was that through

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easier technology, we could do our small part and and all and kind of disengagement with that.

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It our small part is just one piece of a larger equation of what it takes to build a successful

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tennis club tennis program that you guys, I'm sure have covered through your podcast with other

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speakers. So we just play a small part, small part in it. We think obviously very important,

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but we just do, you know, we're just the, you know, the assistant coach if you want to call it that way.

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And that keeps. All right, well, I'm good. Bobby, thanks for coming.

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I want to know what was in the water in 2015 that everybody got the same idea at the same time.

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There's, yeah, and it's funny because court reserve came came to be in that same time. Yeah.

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Forts, which you're you you were involved in and Waleed and, you know, great people. We have great

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relationships with them. And really the, the old G's as I call it, used to be tennis bookings,

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which is no longer with us that way with Paul. He did a great job as well.

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Then, and then you had a couple other players that you probably knew, right, that that we're doing it

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from from a long time. But I think what changed in 2015 or 2016 was you had a targeted effort to

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instead of building, you know, a developer trying to build a homemade solution, someone trying to,

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I'm not going to say build a business, but try to take it to more clubs at a higher scale. And

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I don't know what happened in that year that there's a couple theories across ideas that ideas are not

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born within the person, but that they're flying around. And, you know, you can catch them,

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for sure, in that case. So maybe that's the theory we can, we can abide by, but I think there was a big

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thing. I would say it's strike. Showed up when strike became a thing when we could take payments

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easily. And people could put together a website because we had what we had reserve my court for

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20 years. I mean, he was, he was ahead of the curve on that one with just a simple click-a-button,

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get it done, no bells and whistles, you know, get us started. But when Stripe showed up and we started

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being able to implement, taking the payments, I think we were able to figure out how to monetize these

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things. So there was some incentive to get into the industry. Yeah. Tennis source was another one.

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No. No. I think we had three of them here in Atlanta coming out of Georgia Tech. We had like

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three different groups. They were not doing something very similar. Yep. That's true. So what's, and

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here's my favorite leading question in this, in this concept, Ardoros, which is, you know, why are

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you special? So you say you're, you're a small piece and we talked to everybody about it and everybody

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says, okay, well, here's, here's what we do. And one of the things Bobby and I have realized of our

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combined millions of years of experience here are, is realizing that not every club is the same. And

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there is no, there is no system that's just going to be for everyone. You've got to find the right

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club. You got to find the right facility that fits what you're offering as opposed to just blank

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it and saying, why isn't everybody using my system and changing their business model to the way

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we do things? So what's, what's yours? What's your target? Who specifically are you helping?

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Great question. So I'll continue the story that I was telling you that ties into that.

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So we came in and I think everyone had this similar situation where, you know, the idea is,

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look, I'm going to do a booking system and it's going to work for everyone, right? Same thing as

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all these things. And I said before, little, little did I know, I had no knowledge on the industry.

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Right? So it was when people asked me why we started this and the answer I always give, I was naive.

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That's it. Plane and simple. I was naive. I didn't know what I was getting myself into.

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So we launched in 2017 and everything we thought how the club operated was wrong.

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Right? So we're, oh my god, we thought you did this way. No, it's this way. And then,

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and then that was a big revelation at the beginning. But we took it from a point of view that

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we were in no hurry. We really wanted to understand what the club was going through, what the staff

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was going through on a day to day. I would go to the club every morning to really understand what

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the, you know, what the folks, Maddie and these clubs were going through on a day to day basis,

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right? And also that came to the why, for sure, in that case. Why wasn't there a good system that

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everyone can have? And the reason is that bookings, right? And that's, that was our, not wrong

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approach, but that was part of the learning. And as you guys know, it's just a small component

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of the tennis business at the clubs. You got lessons, you got junior programs, you got the pro shop,

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you got memberships, you got a bunch of other stuff that tie it in, right? And bookings,

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revenue wise is very small, right? So why, so that, so why hasn't there been a solution for that? Because

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there's more important stuff, right? For sure, in that case. So part of our biggest revelation in

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the beginning was, look, all these clubs, the problem is not bookings. The problem is that all these clubs

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are using a golf software to manage their tennis operation, a spa software to manage their operations,

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a yoga software, a government software. So then we, we set, and we made a pivot back then, very

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consciously, to change from being a booking system to being a management and point of sale solution.

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Right? That includes, yes, it does include bookings. Yes, it does include all the things that you

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need, right? So interact. And, and that was the first revelation. The second one was, I was,

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laser focused on building for, you know, for that customer I thought that everyone was the same.

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And then I got my third, my second customer. And then I go to, to my other customer in Dorao,

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my god, these guys are doing everything different. What is this? Nothing that I did here,

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is the same here. Okay, well, I got to go set it up the way they do it here. Perfect. Boom. And

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everything we did from day one, we built our technology in a way that it's customizable to each

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individual club, right? And we started learning that in our pitch till this day is every club is

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different. Every club has its unique way of operating. Every club has its unique set of rules.

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And the way we built our technology is that it's extremely easy to customize it to your needs.

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We take care of all setup. We take care of onboarding. And we make sure that the solution fits for

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your club. A famous phrase that I always say is the, the, the software, the, the software, you

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shouldn't accommodate your business by the software. It should be the other way around, right? So

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what we did throughout many years, we, we had that philosophy and that approach. And we would

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literally just build that specific need for that customer because that got me that one customer.

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And that another customer. And, and, and that was our journey from 2017 to 2020, you know,

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we were just trying to build these partnerships with these clubs. And, and if, you know,

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Karen at North River Shores had this problem and she did it this way, then we would build it for her.

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And no additional cost and no setup, no commitment, nothing because we thought that that would help

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eventually the whole ecosystem. So it got to a point that we got to, or, you know, our 100th

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club or 100. And we have seen so many of these cases already that today, we offer, in my opinion,

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one of the most flexible platforms out there in the market where you were not telling you how to

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run your business, the, the platform adapts to your unique needs for Shandakis. And if we don't have them,

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we'll build it for you, right? And we keep that promise to this day, Nakhir's.

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So the only way you can do that is to monetize usage rather than monetizing, you're,

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you're going to monetize the traffic and the activity rather than monetizing the usage is kind of

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the way I would put it. Because if you're going to, you're, if you're going to say, okay, I'm going to,

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I'm going to build it specifically for you. That gets expensive fast from a development point of

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you. So how are you able to pull off all of this customization? I mean, I'm just picturing 97

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different drop downs as to how I'm trying to figure out how this fits into my club.

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Great question. You know, we got one, our technology team is one of the best, right? So everything

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the way we structured our software and, and that's another piece where we're different. If you look

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at our software and that the, the player experience and the management experience is completely

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different from what you have out there in the market. Everything out there from I'm not going to

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mention names, they all look the same. They're all the same, right? We made one key, not one key

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difference, but what is one example? The, our, our calendar, our quarter on the left and our times

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are on top. And I'll, I'll start there. And just because we think about things differently, right?

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In terms of how the staff should engage with them and, and what that's done is it creates, to

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point how we're different. What my claim is I can train your staff in 10 to 15 minutes. Our system is

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very easy to use, very easy to get them up and running. And that brings it back to my experience

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that I started earlier over at the restaurant business that you got people rotating, you don't

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have time to train you're from that staff. Some days someone's covering one shift. And if they don't

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know how to use the system or they got it, they got to take in, you know, a master's degree to learn it.

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It's not going to work, right? And I think that's the mistake that a lot of other folks did that

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we put a lot of effort into making not only the player side look nice, which is amazing on our end,

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but the admin side look beautiful and not only look beautiful, up great in a way. So how did we do it?

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That all that customization, um, luckily enough. Or I don't, you know, you, we can, I'll call it

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luck, for some backcase, right? Where each feature we built, brought me the next customer and the next

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customer used that feature. I was just going to interrupt, I was just going to interrupt and point

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that out as I'm, as I'm looking through everything because you're not monetizing the traffic, your

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monitor, your monetizing the feature, which, yeah, however that works, but you say, okay, hey, I need

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this feature to do this thing. And you say, sure, I'll build it because some other club is going to

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need it. And I'm going to add it to that list. And they're going to pay for the advanced version,

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or the, the maximum version or whatever, because they're going to need that feature too.

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All right. And also look the way I look at it is we're lucky enough to get that valuable feedback,

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right, where clubs are collaborating with us and telling us, look, Andres, these are my needs.

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I need this. This is my pain point, um, pain point. That's Bobby's phrase. Like, find

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their pain point. We can help. Yeah. And, and, and that's what really, that's why I looked at, I

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didn't even look like it was expensive. We were learning from them. I was, again, I go back to the point.

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We need nothing, right? I thought, and I think there's a mistake that a lot of people from the

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outside say, and even when I talk to my non tennis or people that are in the racket sports industry,

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managing a racket sports center, it's easy, right? I think that's kind of the, the outside and

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little do they know the intricacies of the job of the operations, the challenges, not only on court,

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right? That's in a whole nother dimension, but also off court, right? And, and I think for us,

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what makes us different is that we, we live, breathe, and understand the pain point to Bobby's point

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of the operator, right? So we, we've built a wonderful great solution, um, you know, in, in my opinion,

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it's to have someone, you know, invest, you have an R&D team, right? A group of scientists who

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got to put it that way, making this industry better, right? And that's the way we look at it. If we can make

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operations for, and what I said, if we can make the operations clean and people are making money,

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and they're, they, they're efficient, we can then take care of the rest, right? The other problems

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that we have in the industry, in that case. And I think Bobby is going to agree with this. So

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I'm going to let him talk about it for a second, but we, we talk between amongst ourselves,

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I like using the word amongst, it's just fun. Amongst ourselves about the, the fact that we've got the same

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old people running tennis. And when some, you know, some young person comes out of LA and they've got a

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new app that's going to fix everything, the, the arrogance of that, and everybody says, no,

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we're not going to happen. But Bobby mentions all the time, Bobby, you talk about needing fresh eyes,

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get somebody who doesn't know how to run a tennis club or hasn't been doing it for thousands of

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years to come in and say, well, wait, it's just like this other thing. Why don't we just do it this way?

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Yeah. Well, I think that's a lot of interest. And I think that's part of the, the 2016

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Proletoration. Everybody was looking at book, you know, book a table. It was starting to come around

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all about in, on other aspects of life, why isn't it in tennis? The fascinating part of it, and I

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love what you're saying, Andreas, obviously you survived and you said it out loud mistakes.

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That's a difficulty for a small company. So was, I mean, you, and you talked about the

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collaborative, was the development and the financing done by the city, the government, or, you know,

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because we're talking money here. That's, that's the hard part with any startup is being able to

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survive early misjudgments. We wouldn't call mistakes because I remember when I spoke to courts,

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and they were like, God, I really wish we would have spoke to you two months ago before, you know,

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that we came up with this idea. And I was like, well, you know, you're coming to Atlanta,

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whole different ballpark because we're HOA driven. We're not the traditional clubs. You know,

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you got a lot of people playing tennis, but most of them are playing out in neighborhoods.

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If you, you're not going to make a living off of the five clubs in Atlanta, like you said,

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that aren't going to use the software already provided by golf or make it affordable where they

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can switch. So, you know, how did you survive early on from a financial standpoint,

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why are you going through this journey? Great question. Let me start with the first comment that you made

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at, there's all these young guys trying to come up with a flashy product, and the few of us that

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survived are the ones that were humble enough to realize that the most important thing is listening

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to the customer, right? And not trying to impose our will or our vision onto them, right? And I

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think that's something that, you know, today there's few players, right? And I think the ones that

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guided their product and their development through that lens are still here today, right? And

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that is my friend, but you're right. He got stuck out of path and he couldn't get off of it.

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Exactly. So, what something that we did is I always knew that as long as we, you know, we're here

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trying to solve the clubs need, right? And that's something to go back to. The player, yes,

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they are important, right? We can build all these fans. And everyone was going after the player,

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for example, in that case, and we said, no, first we got to, we got to, and I go back to first we got

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to digitize the clubs. Then we can take care of the rest. And that was our mission to digitize

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the industry, right? And how would we do it by capturing 100% of everything that goes on at the club?

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Right? So again, covering not only court reservations, going back lessons, lesson packages,

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academies, and then you got junior signups and you got junior cams. Then you got juniors that they do one

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day a week, two days a week, three days a week. And I can go on and on and on about all these things,

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right? You some clubs have a lottery system that, you know, on HOAs. So again, all these things that

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we were completing, really, you need to tie in the whole ecosystem, right? It's a long time to build

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that out, right? So it's seven years and that's why when someone tries to come in today's world,

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in today's mark, and they say, it's easy a booking system. You know, I wish them luck, right? Just

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because of that. So that's on that side, right? So I think the the ones that were focused on helping the

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clubs were still here for sound that case. In terms of the financing, no, we gave our first pilot for

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free, right? So a lot of the the the initial, you know, we never went out and raised outside money,

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you know, we this was, you know, I said, look, let me, I got a, you know, one one of our my CTO, right? We

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we worked together since day one and he's still with us. And we kept the lean team, right? At the

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beginning, as we were developing the product, great technology person, a partner in the business. And

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the first three years, I was working full time, right? So I was working my full time job. I would go

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from 6 a.m. to 8 30 to the court, which is already active, then go to work, lunch, go back to the club,

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learn more, and go back to work nights, boom, and, and we were self funding the whole operation for

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a very long time for sound that case. And I think the, you know, in hindsight, if we would have gone,

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and I came from an, from a finance and investing background, and I knew that if you raised outside

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capital, you were just going to burn out because the scalability wasn't there, right? I learned early on

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that, you know, every club was different. So how are you going to sell an idea that I was going to be

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in a thousand clubs if it was difficult, right? So what we, we made in going back to your point,

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on the business model, we kept it simple, right? Because we saw everyone trying to do,

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hey, let me charge a percentage of the revenue of the fee and, and pros and justifiably so,

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you don't like getting another tax, right? On top of your business. So we, we kept it simple,

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right? And it's a, it's a SaaS tool software as a service. You pay a monthly fee depending on the,

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on the products you're looking for. And, and that's it, right? We keep it simple in that case. And,

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and, and that was our, our business model because our, our first goal is to digitize the industry,

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right? And that case, so get is more, we, we, it obviously took us a long time to, to customize

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everything. And we're still not there yet, by the way, right? But there's still things that pop up

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here and there, less now, less, now, but there's still things that we get at, at a, at a random club

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that those things differently. But, you know, we just held on, right? And, and, and what I say in

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entrepreneurship is, you know, it's, it's, it's, there is no failure. There's just when you give up,

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right? So, and you, and you do everything to keep it alive. So, and, and that was our journey, right?

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They, thankfully, obviously, I remember my first 50 customers, right? Because those, you know,

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a hundred, two hundred, three hundred, whatever dollars they paid us a month, that kept us going,

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right? Even at very lean, but that's why I, you know, I still speak to them today, right? We still

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support them and, and that's, you know, those are the true heroes of our journey, right? For sound

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actions. When we find not everybody wants to be first. So, when you come in and say, Hey, I got,

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I got an idea that's going to help you, especially in this industry, one of our first podcast episodes

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was titled, You Still Use a Pencil. Yeah. And it's just insane to me, but we still have it. And you,

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and it's probably going to be a really long time before pencils go away, but changing the culture a

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little bit is where everybody was in 2016. And maybe that 2017 timeframe, where everybody was a little

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more, maybe not everybody, many were more susceptible to the idea of digitizing and saying, ah, you know

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what? Yeah, we could, we could probably modernize a little bit and stop using Lotus Notes. You know,

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we hopefully updated. Yeah, I, by the way, we've never done sales. Everything has been word of mouth,

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all inbound. And I gave up on that at the big, at first two years, because I would, we would,

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I would drive all across Florida, um, knocking on clubs doors, tell them, Hey, you know, with the same

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pitch, right? Why is he painted paper? And we got, you have an idea how many knows, right? And just

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people, they didn't get it, right? So I said, you know what? Not that we just kind of turned back and

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say, look, I'm going to focus on the people that see the value. I'm not, I'm not here to change people's

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minds, right? And, and that's, I just, I gave up on that tennis pro, right? I'm not going to hear

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to try to convince them on that, because then he needs to go to his board and then convince,

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and then I'm like, okay, the people that see the value, then you, we hold you dearly. And we appreciate

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you and, and we'll support you with, with our, all our efforts for sound that case. And we just

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start to focus on the, on the, on the clubs that matter in that case. And, and really be myopic

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in the sense that we need to build the best solution. And, and that was our mission. We weren't

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thinking about, Oh, I need to get this club, that club, let's just keep making the best product.

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And we're taking a leap of faith that, um, that win, that ultimately gets us to the finish line.

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Bobby's got the same feature for his coaching business. He's secretly the best coach in the area,

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but nobody know. He didn't tell anybody. He just keeps it to himself when people figure it out,

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all of a sudden, it's just all incoming. Um, so, Anders, what's your, what's your footprint here?

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That's a fun, what's your footprint in Atlanta? What, uh, how do I ask that question? What kind of

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corporate buzzword can I throw in to ask? How many clubs you got here? Who are you working with?

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So low, we work with all the city of Atlanta locations. Um, I forget the names to be honest,

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but Pete, we know the ball, Pete, not bitty. Yeah, all those. And then we got some H O A's country clubs.

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I mentioned, you know, Dunwoody's one we just, just got, but I'll share that list after I tell you

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because we, you know, thankfully in the past two years, you know, obviously our growth has accelerated

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immensely. And, you know, I think our footprint today and the company were, you know, across the

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all 50 states, Canada, Latin America, Asia, Philippines, Dubai, Hong Kong, um, you know, the

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Dominican Republic, Ecuador, um, Hawaii. So, so again, our footprint has expanded. So I need to go

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look at my notes now and, you know, to get kind of certain in geographic area. We keep that obviously

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on a tight, um, tight ship, per se on that case, because again, we just focus on the club, right? So

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we're not a marketplace. Um, every club is unique. Every club has their own way of, um, working

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their, their operation and, and that's how we roll. Interesting. So your city, the city of Atlanta,

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you have all of those, that's not a piecemeal thing. Like you went to the city of Atlanta and said,

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hey, great, use this and they said great, have all our clubs. And, well, not like they came to us.

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It's a short version. I'll just, yeah, I'll get the short version. Maybe. So if Bobby was in, so

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yeah, the backstory there. Yeah. So the backstory, the true backstory there is, um,

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courts had those clubs. They got acquired in 2021 or they got, you know, whatever they got,

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done. And then the new acquiree didn't have a solution for all these clubs. So then

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when they're starting looking around, hey, you know, you don't have a point of sale, you know,

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we got to use, we got to use something and we just picked up all those clubs per se on that case. So

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really from the courts acquisition, um, we picked up half, right? Or give everything or a little

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bit more from, from all the clubs that were left stranded, right? In that case. And the same thing.

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Yeah. No, and I agree. And that, to me, that's, that's my, my next question is where do you see

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the future of this? Because the funny part about technology is it takes a long time for people to

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job on the, the wagon. And then once they're on it, well, what else are you going to do for me? How do

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you keep up? What, what do you foresee? You know, in your mind, the future, because I always looked at

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this and one thing I pushed and what we try to do with, with our website, I loved the open concept

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of courts, the ability for you to see the entire area and the sharing of drills and just an open

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source for tennis players could find other tennis players type thing. But I also looked at it from a

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director's perspective, I want something that's going to help me facilitate my communication with my

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members, make it easier where if I do a drill, I wanted to incorporate text messaging right into it. And

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once they got on the list of, well, yeah, that's on our list, but it's not number one on our list.

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You know, where do you foresee what, what features you're going to add? And I apologize, I've just

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been looking at you. What is the TV pricing? That, that has me. What, what is that? What do you

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go for? Is that, that sounds pretty flashy. No, so the TV is, you can display your courtsheet on a

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TV monitor, right? Oh, so you, well, because we tried to do that, we had to go to an outside software

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provider and it, he turned out to be a bomb. And, you know, so I have a TV thing, so I would love to be

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able to do that again. Yeah, I know. You said on my window that does nothing. Yeah, no, you're,

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your courtsheet, we got us, we send you a fire stick, you plug it in and then it's going to show

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your whole courtsheet right on the TV screen and it rotates. It's not the whole, it's not a copy

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of the court sheet. It wrote, it just keeps a four hour timeframe where you can choose the timeframe

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and as the day goes by, your, your court sheet shished over automatically. You should, I found your,

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your next name change is court guide. Because you're basically, what you're describing, I'm absolutely

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picturing what it looks like on those guides on the television where it scrolls because you moved

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the courts and the time and it moves. That's like a TV guide, right? Nope, I hear you. That's a great

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way to view it. I like that. Yeah. Now, do you do with that? And I love that idea again. Would you,

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because the other thing I was trying to incorporate, how do you make it for the neighborhoods? Because

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that's more of what we're doing here. And then go to them and say, yeah, look, this sounds like an

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expense. It's 1200, let's say my, my current subdivisions got 16 courts. Yeah, we were with courts on

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the, on the family rate. And then we started looking around and court reserved by the time we

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added anywhere near the amount of future features that we had similar, the price was astronomical.

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So then you take a step back and you go to something local that you hope over time gets to where you

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had it's, you know, balancing for the club, you know, the guys like me, how could you put an ad

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on that rotating court sheet where I could go to local neighborhoods and say, hey, you're going to

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be honest for $50 and I can go to my H.O.A. committee and say, look, it's going to cost is $1500,

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but I can make $750 of the back. I think. Yeah. So let me answer your two questions or

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a couple questions before that. I've been three. Who knows? Yeah. So on the, on the open concept for the

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player, look, the reality is that the club access is really a problem in the United States, right?

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Where yeah, we have all these facilities, but half of them are not even half a third. I don't

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know what the actual statistic is, but you can access. You can't just go in and play, right? So to create

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an open model, it's hard to do, right? The supply dynamics are not in there. The incentives are not in

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there. Why would an H.O.A. allow someone from the outside to go in? So there's a lot of barriers that

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it just doesn't make sense, right? So to that question, I think that's a, that's a mute point, at least from our

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opinion. So we focus at the club level, right? Where every club or every court, for sure, in that case,

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is a community, right? And at the end of the day, tennis, yeah, booking is just a tool, right? To get

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on the court, but at the end of the day, it's, you know, why do we play tennis? You know, there's a

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loneliness epidemic in this country. We want relationships, you know, we want to go in there,

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get interactions. If, you know, if I'm locked into my office all day, it doesn't bring, you know,

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too much enjoyment. So that's part of, we do this because it's a hobby, right? It's a sport.

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And I think that that's the number one component we should always keep in mind, right? And the pro

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has been central, is central to that. As, you know, right? The pro in getting the ladies leagues

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up and running, the ladies clinics, the, you know, getting the guys that book and connecting them with

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what used to be a sheet on the wall and people writing their names with their levels. So what the

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future holds on the software side and I'll kind of answer that question first. And what I tell people,

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is first we're trying to figure out how to run these things, right? We had all these operations,

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we were trying to see how we can, we can, you know, handle clinics, handle wait lists, handle the

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bookings, the rules and all that. And then the next phase in the future is how do we reduce the friction

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of the heart of the club, which is the director to make those interactions easily, right? So

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I think doing all the social pieces is going to be critical, right? Building leagues, you know,

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that's within the app that's easy to do. Tournament sign up a community chat, right? Where people can

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join and can post and all those aspects around that, that level for sound back to you. So that's where

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we, we're going towards to and then the other piece that I tell all my clients is, look, the booking

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is just the utility, right? When I never describe myself as a booking platform, we're a commerce

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platform, right? When you look at our booking system, the way we approach it and we'll send some

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fault material after a podcast so you can see, we're different. And in the case that when you look at

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every other system and I go back to that point, how does the booking journey start? And that's a question

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for both of you. I look at like how far back you go? What are they looking at? What are they looking at

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first? I'm looking at a monitor, a phone or a computer and a court sheet, right? You just, you look the

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whole court sheet. I went too far back, sorry. Yeah. So you're looking at the whole court sheet.

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That's my biggest critique of not critique, but in general. Why does a person want to look at the whole

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court sheet? No, right? You need to show them what they want. So the way we interact our customers is

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they go in and download our app and really take it for a spin and you can see that what we're building

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is a commerce platform where you can put banner ads to your point, right? We got banner ads on our

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under format. You can upsell them, you can charge partners for it. You have a shop section where

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you can put your pro shop items on the app, people can buy them online and pick up on site. We got our

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game match feature where you can create those matches post them on post them on a board, people can

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join it. That inspiration came from way back when on the paper sheets that were posted on every

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tennis shop, right? Here's my name and my level is 101 of play. Same concept, right? So, you know,

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be again, and the way when we look at in steps, first we got to take care of business.

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Now we're going to take care of the player and not the player as a general, the club player, right?

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The player that belongs to their club, because that's another thing, right? From the pro perspective,

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you spent a lot of time, you know, creating building your community, right? These are your customers

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in some way. These are your students. These are your leagues. And not that it's not in, I'm not saying

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it's not in your best interest, but you want to try to create loyalty to the club, right? Or to

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your to that pro. So that's kind of our scene. And then the last piece to that point is we got all

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this data. Now we need to make it actionable, right? So, and all tennis directors can relate.

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Good thing. We haven't had a demand problem historically, right? And I think that's what's really

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led to a to us getting lazy and, you know, I'll put us in the tennis, as a tennis industry, because

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we haven't had a demand problem. That's what people from the outside think. There's not a demand

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problem. We're all clubs are packed and you can find all these, what I call them, all the addicts

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coming in there and playing every day. And we actually, we need to do the reverse of demand. We

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got to limit them in that case. So what we're, you know, what we're guiding towards is building that

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community, first and that case, right? And trying to make it better. So, and the last piece is how do we

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make all that information actionable? You know, Bobby came in for the first time, sent them a little

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text automated text, say, Bobby, thanks for coming in today. Why don't you come in and stop by our

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clinic next time? So that's where we think the future is going. So we can become smarter. We can

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instead of, you know, I remember my coach used to have a, a pad, all his clients names, right? And

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all his lessons. So that we're digitizing all aspects of it. So I think that's where we're going

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in. And, and these are different, you know, there's, if it existed, if we knew what it looked like,

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you know, someone would be doing it already, right? So I think you can only discover that solution

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through an iterative process, if we're saying that case. But it's, it's interesting to be here,

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you talking, it goes back to the, the difference between the rest of the country and Atlanta.

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We have so many leagues. We have, you know, all that is built. It's, we are the other side of what

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you're talking about. We have a bunch of middle-aged folks looking to find a community outside of,

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you know, as you get older, finding that thing that you share that you build off of, you know,

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when you're a kid, you have your sports, you have your school, you've very stages of your life. As

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you get older, what is the commonality? Tennis has became a commonality throughout, uh, you know,

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subdivisions are built in Atlanta with at least two tennis courts, a situated bathroom and country

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club, caliber lights. So you can get certified to play out there. So we're so different in so many,

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because I always felt against something I pushed to, to, while lead was the pros themselves. We have

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so many independent pros that should be using a system to legitimize themselves that look at it and

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are afraid of it because they're not a club or they don't feel like could you set something up for

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a guy who's at five, I mean, Sean has his business. He goes to several different neighborhoods. Could

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you set something up? Sean's specific to show his clients. Okay, Sean's at Windomere on Wednesdays. He's

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here on Fridays. Are you that customizable? Um, no, right? So not even customizable, but I'll go

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back to, to look the, focus, right? So you got to pick your battles for, say, on that case and every

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if you really want to be the best, right? Which is our intent. You got to focus for you're going to be

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the best in, right? And then slowly we'll tackle other areas, but, you know, managing leagues,

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so whole different animal, right? Managing the independent pros operational process. So whole different

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journey, right? And, and, and all these other steps that happen offline, um, you know, require a lot of

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focus and effort and time and investment to really come up with a good solution, right? Not saying it

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can't be done, but, you know, you got to, you, at least steps are perspective, right? We got to,

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you know, there's, you got to focus on, on one thing, be the best. And then we can start tackling the

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other items one at one, right? So that's kind of how I see it. So for that player that you mentioned,

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that five, oh, again, we focus on the club, right? And I go back to that. That is our, our, our, our,

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our north star. Um, maybe down the road, you know, we will build solutions around that, but for

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now, we, we got, we got more wood to, to chop up or sound back in. Oh, I understand. But again,

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that's what makes it land us so unique, you know, and difficult for you guys coming in because it's

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just a different market. We are not club based, you know, there might be, there might be two,

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three standalone tennis only clubs in the entire city. But you got courts, right? You got

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individual facilities and they should be run by a scheduling platform in order to organize

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all these events going on. Well, one thing I think that hopefully you learned early, because it

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was always funny dealing with municipalities was always the biggest pain in the neck alive,

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because of the bureaucracy. But that's where you, you got your teeth sharpened. So hopefully, you

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know, that, that could be a big thing because you're right. I mean, certainly where I live in Forsyne

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County, some of the most spectacular parks, you'll find anywhere and they're not managed. It's

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drive up in, see, because it's, you know, again, it's just different. Most people don't play out of

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parks because they can play in their neighborhood. So the parks are dramatically underutilized. And

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I think we, we focus on Atlanta. So I'd like to hear what other people are doing just to see what,

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what is transferable? What can we, you know, what, what can we learn from you and what you're doing?

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And I think what you're saying is absolutely right. Stay with, you know, show me the money is always

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a good way or follow the money is always a good indicator of where people's interests are. You know,

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where they're using it. That's where their interest is. Yeah. Exactly. And that's why,

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yeah, it's a different, you know, different problem, not a problem to solve, but you got free

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tools out there, right? And what's been proven in the market is that that kind of club, they'll just

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buy from my dear friend from hold my court is one, right? It's a pre-solution. It's got ads. It's

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I'm not saying it's, it's very clunky, very old school, but it works, works, you know, and,

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and that's okay, right? That's okay. I think it hurts the community at large because we're not

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organizing ourselves, but, you know, that's why we focus on the clubs that are

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and they have a deep need for that, this solution for sell that case.

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On the court and the court system that is free, and we got the HOAs that are building their own,

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no, we're going to go over there in the house that can build us one real quick. And I take that as a

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good step because at some point, they're going to realize, okay, we've got a crappy product, you know,

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Bob built it for us. We really appreciate your Bob. But we got a call on dress. We got to get,

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we got to get this. But what it did was it got him off the pencil. It got him out of that manually

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writing things down and the phone calls. And it's one step closer to where we want the industry to be,

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which is automated and digitized for you. Yeah, the biggest shift as well, and just thinking

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of step back is the big is COVID, right? So in 2020, you know, prior to 2020, and we forget, right?

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Now it's only been three years, but prior to that, I was selling why you should use the technology

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solution and then that kind of forced that kind of accelerated the curve five years, right? Where my

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discussion changed, right? Why are you better? Why should I use you? Right? Percent on that case. So I

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think COVID did bring a lot of that demand forward because there was no option. They had to. And then once

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they implemented it, then it, then a lot of people kept it for sound that case. So I think that was a net

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positive for us. And also made the, you know, certain parts of the industry realize that it can,

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it could really save you a lot of time. Well, yeah, $200 a month is a lot cheaper than hiring

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somebody to work the front desk. When the front desk is an app on your phone, you can do a lot more.

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Yep, exactly. Yeah, that's fantastic. So Bobby, I want to ask him the King of Tennis question,

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because you pushed a little bit asking for something from the future. And he points out that the,

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he does not have that kind of hubris. I'm going to ask King, King of Tennis anyway, Bobby, you got

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anything else you want to talk to him about before we go there? No, no, I'd look forward to following

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up on a club basis, Andreas. Awesome. No, no, I would love to. Yeah, Bobby's, Bobby's always looking

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for the next best thing. They might be you. We'll see. I think, I think we are. Well, you're biased.

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We know that. So, Andreas, our King of Tennis question, which hopefully you know is coming. We ask,

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everybody we talked to, except Patricia Jensen. I think she was the only one we didn't ask,

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because that's obvious. She's just going ahead and doing it. But if you were King of Tennis and whether

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it's Miami, Florida, the world, the universe, whatever it is, if you were King of Tennis and could

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change something or add something or even some people were out there trying to, trying to subtract

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some things from the tennis world, is there anything you would do or change? Um,

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so the answer is yes, right? To in preparation of the question. And, and my answer is going to be biased,

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right? Obviously. So I need to come from the perspective of the solution I'm trying to solve.

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But to me, what I would change is accessibility. Right? I think in the consumer market,

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there's a lot of confusion as to how do I approach the sport today? And we need to start bringing

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all those barriers down to make it easy and accessible. Obviously the USDA has done a lot of efforts

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in that avenue, but I think it needs to start from a, from a grassroots perspective, right? From

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the individual pro. And I think technology will play a small part of it in the sense that, you know,

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we're, you know, it's 20, 23. Everyone has a phone in their hand. And the moment that you make me call

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to go do a clinic or to me, you make me drive to the park, you've lost me as a customer because I'm

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going to go to Orange Spearie or whatever Jim Boutique out there that's popping up. So I think as an

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industry of all and, and from the pros operating these individual sites, we need to accelerate

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the accessibility at the sport from awareness, education, ease of purchase, and getting them in the

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door, right? Because one thing I do believe is that once you get someone in the door and you give them

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a good treatment, you know, it's a great sport. That's why, you know, that's why we're all here. So

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that's what I would focus my efforts in. And in ways to, to make it more accessible, easy to,

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easy to join, easy to play and not create too many territorial wars that you find at the neighborhood

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level, right? The, you know, the group that always plays at 7 a.m. and you can't touch them because,

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you know, they got the special deal with the HOA or with the city or not with the city, but with the

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court, court, and all that. So I think if we can set up a ground level rules across the nation,

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then I think it'd be net, net positive. And, and one thing that I like to advocate is to the tennis

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people. And, and I think, you know, and this is going to be my, my, you know, we're not competing

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against other tennis coaches or facilities, right? We're competing for time and for fitness activities,

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right? And, and, and the, the consumer today or the player today, if it's easier for them to go to

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a Pilates class or a gym class or a gym studio, we're competing against that today. And that's

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something I think the industry hasn't caught on. And, and now you know, you, you have two big waves

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coming to market, which you guys are very familiar with, right? You got the explosion of pickleball,

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you got Padel, you got other racket sports coming to market, then I think can work together,

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right? With tennis, that you, we got a, you know, I'm not going to say defender turf, but

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you have to keep it engaging and fun and accessible. Because if not, we're going to see a huge decrease

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in player participation. And he's already started to see it across the nation, right? You don't,

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you don't, you, you can't hide that, you can't hide that fact, right? Tennis clubs are being converted

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to pickleball. Um, and, and I love pickleball, right? So they'll get me wrong. I think it's great.

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Um, but from a tennis point of view, given the Quincy and Sking of tennis, I think as, you know,

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tennis directors and, and pros and industry players, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's a capitalist

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country and, and we need to compete and we need to, to really bring people back to the sport,

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right? I'm bullish on the sport. I think it, you know, it's, it's been for hundreds of years.

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I don't think it's going anywhere, but we need to reinvigorate it, right? Because if not, we run the risk,

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and it's not an existential risk, but we don't want to become a forgotten sport, or sound that case.

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So I, I would just put that sense of urgency, you know, I might be too catastrophic, but I think that

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might get us in the industry to really try to, try to make things better, right? Try to get the first

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person in the door and, and get them to play it, right? So if, at least here in Miami, it's, you know,

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my, my wife, I was asked, "No, I want to go play tennis." I don't know. I work in the industry. I don't

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know a single place where I can recommend she start at, right? Where it's easy and they can just go in

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and play. I don't know, right? So that's a problem.

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- It's a, Bobby, they just don't have tennis courts right next to their house like we do.

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- And that's another problem. Yeah, and that's, I agree. Right? So again, and yeah, that's, that's the other problem.

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- Can I add anything? - We run the same, we run the same issue. I mean, it's always tough getting people.

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It's, I completely agree with what you say. And like you said, I don't look at Pick-A-Ball as a thread.

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I look at Pick-A-Ball as an opportunity. Take the money that's being created by Pick-A-Ball to elevate

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the tennis. Yeah. Get people programming as far as cameras. I mean, like you said, let's, let's make

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this thing grow it by getting the, the, the, the, the, the, in flesh of cash where you, you offered more

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things to people to get them excited. We know people like to watch themselves. Go videoteers.

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Now a video tape lesson is the same cost because I don't need to make a margin because I make

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an margin someplace else. Look, and you know, this is on the heels of Atlanta just lost our tournament

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again. Our 250 annual tournaments, it's going away. And I'm reading all the, "Hosan is online from

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the people that have been involved from day one." I'm like, "You've been involved through day one.

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This is the third time the tournament is left. Don't you think we need somebody other than you

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is being the messenger of because you're two not, you're seat, like you said, you're selling it as tennis.

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We're not competing against tennis. We're competing against the movies, swimming, going out to dinner,

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being a tier one city that just like Miami, we got a lot of options on what to do with our disposable

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income. And everybody holding on to this idea that tennis, that's what kills this sport.

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Yeah. It's a part. It's, it, you cannot sit different or you're set yourself apart and say,

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"Oh, what, you need to play tennis." Yeah. Now I agree. And look, I, I agree with you, right?

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My biggest, not critique, but we, you know, when, you know, it takes, as you say at the beginning,

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you know, a lot of effort to, you know, dedicate your life, right? To a sport, to a solution in the sport.

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And at least my sentiment, being out there and trying to sell is that we were always getting the

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borscht, right? And, and obviously it's a bias approach in the terms of, you know, it's part of

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building a company, but we felt that it was hard to get support from stakeholders, right? And you

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know who they are, right? Big organ is it, we're always competing against them. And we're just

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doing R&D for the industry, right? And, and we're, and we always, not to have to be

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watching our backs, but, you know, the door was shut on a lot one. We're just trying to help

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the industry, right? So I think that ethos needs to change, right? Whether it be our competitors,

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right? And that's why we never speak ill of our competitors, right? We, we love what they're doing,

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right? And, and that's how, how the whole industry should wake up. So I like your introduction

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to the beginning of starting with that, because that's kind of why we exist for sure in that case.

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And, and we tend to forget that this is, it's a hobby. We need to have fun.

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That would be the point. So wait a minute. What you're telling me is your, your system is better

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than the USDA's free tennis management saw? How could that possibly be? I've been in, I've been in

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insane, I've been in insane, I've been in insane names. But, you know, it's, uh, well, Andreas, I appreciate

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your time. You got anything else? Got anything exciting coming up? Got any, any scoop? Anything you

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want to share? Or should we? No, so look, I would, my message for everyone is come, take us out.

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If you haven't heard of us, you know, there's, um, you know, look, look us around your local clubs.

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Maybe we got a club around there. If not, or, you know, our website is playbypoint.com,

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download our app and kind of book a demo, right? And, and just learn why, right? So no commitment.

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And you'll see that, you know, why clubs that work with us are really making a difference there

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at the cutting edge of future of racket sports, right? I'll, I'll say it that way.

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[Music]

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Well, there you have it. We want to thank Rejovenate.com for use of the studio. And be sure to hit that

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follow button. For more tennis related content, you can go to Atlanta tennispodcast.com. And while

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you're there, check out our calendar of tennis events, the best deals on technic fiber products,

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tennis apparel, and more. If you're a coach, director of any racket sports, or just someone who

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wants to utilize our online shop, contact us about setting up your own shop collection to offer your

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branded merchandise to the Atlanta tennis world. And with that, we're out. See you next time.

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[Music]

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[ะฝะพะนne's entrant voice]

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