Episode X Season 24: Shaun Boyce & Justin Yeo

In this episode of Ten Minutes of Tennis, Shaun and Justin talk about making the decision about what racquet to use and how it relates to your game. After the Ten Minutes, Arturo Nieto of Tecnifibre joins us to talk further.

Facebook LIVE Replay: https://fb.watch/p1-XeQTVAI/

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Shaun Boyce USPTA: [email protected]

https://tennisforchildren.com/ 🎾

Justin Yeo: https://www.instagram.com/yeocoach/

Bobby Schindler USPTA: [email protected]

https://windermerecommunity.net/ 🎾

Geovanna Boyce: [email protected]

https://regeovinate.com/ πŸ’ͺπŸΌπŸ‹οΈ

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Transcript
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(upbeat music)

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Hey, hey, this is Shaun with the Atlanta Tennis Podcast,

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While you're here, please hit that follow button.

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and teammates.

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Also, let us know if you have questions or topics

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you would like us to discuss

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and we will add them to our schedule.

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With that said, let's get started with 10 minutes of tennis.

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(upbeat music)

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- This is Shaun with GoTennis! and the Atlanta Tennis Podcast.

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We are, what is this?

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Week three, Justin.

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We're a week three with 10 minutes of tennis.

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And today's topic is the right bracket for your game.

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So, since we only have 10 minutes,

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we don't bother with pleasantries.

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Good morning, Justin.

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What is the right bracket for my game?

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- I think it's really, it's a song

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where the what kind of game style you want to play.

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I've had many of amateur's,

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economy and say they want to learn this

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and they want to learn that.

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They want to be more of an all-round

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or add tools to their toolbox.

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And the first thing I look at is, okay,

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let's look at your tools, let's look at your racket.

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If you've got a very powerful racket,

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it's not going to be easy to play an all-round play again.

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That can be argued both ways too.

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But if you look at the percentages,

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if you're on the baseline, 90% of the time

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will make you need a more powerful racket to drive

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your ground strokes and take advantage.

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Then you can look at Federated,

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and I'll see my man who got the hat on,

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but you know, he had a very thin beam,

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more play style racket.

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So you, you know, again, I've had

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on my 36 years of coaching.

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I've actually headed more towards a play style racket

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for everybody, whether it be a junior or an adult,

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to teach them good habits of learning how to use their body,

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take away the power out of their hand

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and let them learn to feel the ball and control the ball

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and have plenty of variation.

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And, you know, you can always go up

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into a more powerful racket and use all the tools that you have.

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But if you go the other way around,

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it's a lot harder to go from power to feel and touch

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because you're so used to having that power in your hand.

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- And we were talking about this earlier where I do the same thing,

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where I take that beginner player and say,

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okay, what's the heaviest that you can handle?

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The heaviest players racket I can get you into

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because it's gonna force you to create your own spin.

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It's gonna force you to create your own power.

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And we hand them that as a beginner,

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I think that's great advice.

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And coming up, we're gonna talk to our touro of Technifyver

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about some of those rackets.

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And if we're gonna take that direction, you know,

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what's a good way to do that?

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But most of the people that are gonna watch this

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probably already play tennis.

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So are we too late?

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Oh no, I'm screwed.

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Like there's nothing I can do because I already have my racket,

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I already have my game style,

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but do I really know my game style?

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And now I have a chicken and egg question.

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Is it late to change my game?

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And do I go get the racket that I want the game?

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Like do I go by that meb that I have racket

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because I want his game?

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Is that the reason that as an example, Technifyver

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is gonna put it in those hands to say,

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this is the game style that you wanna be.

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Here's a racket to help you get there.

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Yeah, I mean, technology is always growing

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and it's with old companies.

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They all have something competitive about the graphite,

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how the bull feels and how it's weighted

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and how the grip feels.

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But look, you need to sit with your coach.

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It's a very important relationship.

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We've coached to say, this is my goal.

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This is where I'd like to be, is the tool in my hand,

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the right tool.

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I've found people with a grip tooth hit

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and they can't learn to generate more out of their wrist

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because the grips do think.

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So they hit a very flat game

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and they can't generate more velocity of spin.

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Players, anyone that grew up in the 80s and 90s,

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like myself, I mean,

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we were told one finger and now I'm four and a quarter

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with an over grip and I used to be four and a half

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with an over grip.

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So the rules have changed, the world has changed

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and you've got to really have a clear relationship

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or a coach with the knowledge as well.

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I've seen weights and many coaches still teaching

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like it's in the 80s and 90s, you know?

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Knowledge is key.

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So yeah, and I think same with the racket,

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knowledge is key there as well.

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You've got to try out what feels good.

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A player stole racket and take the fiber

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and a player stole racket and Wilson

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could be totally different feel.

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So again, it's, you know, building that relationship

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with coaches, building relationship with knowledge

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of string tension as well,

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completely changing the racket,

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the way you hit the ball, the way you feel.

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You know, I don't know if it's my own placebo effect

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but I'm still at 62, 63 pounds

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because back in the days, that's what I used to be

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and now I still swing away as hard as I can

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with my federal racket.

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50 years old, no problem shoulder, no elbow issues.

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So it's, you know, a lot of people have that issue too,

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they're like, wow, I've got elbowed and I've got this.

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Well, have a look at the body, you have a flaky face

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and that's probably what's gonna affect

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and help shoulder, you know?

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Yeah, and I was just thinking that,

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and you don't seem to age like the rest of us

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'cause I think what we end up doing is we,

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as we get older, we lower the tension.

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I need a little bit more as we get older,

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we buy the larger head size.

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I'm not as fast as I used to be.

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So you being a terrible example of aging.

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(laughing)

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We'll let that go.

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But I'll understand that one and I appreciate the compliment.

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But it's, you know, age driven or body driven

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or what I'm saying is think about, play out

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but think about who you are and what you wanna be.

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If you want to just improve some things, you know,

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it could be, you're exactly in the ROH racket,

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you just maybe changed the tension and and and,

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and put like worked on what you need to work on to

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and appreciate toolbox.

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But if you're looking to reinvent a little bit

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and change some things up and, you know,

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go from a heavy baseline to a more all-around game

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because we are seeing that now

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people coming to the net and you need the mid court now,

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you know, a power racket and

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it can pose a lot of errors and make it harder on feel.

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So, you know, the change up might be there

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and it might be very uncomfortable for us six months,

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but with the right coaching and the right direction,

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they all can happen.

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So what's my, what's your advice if I'm,

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if I'm in a racket that is for my style,

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let's say I'm 45 years old, you know,

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I'm talking about a friend, of course.

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I'm 45 years old and I'm starting to lower,

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I'm starting to lower the tension to get a little bit more

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'cause I'm still playing a lot of doubles.

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I'm still needing to hit the volley,

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but I need that, I need that feel at the net

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is there a potential of making that switch to say, okay,

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here's my target.

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I wanna be better at the net or you know what,

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I need to be at the baseline, whichever direction

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you're going to add that tool.

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I like you, you mentioned the toolkit

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of one of the other 10 minutes of tennis

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where we talked about the toolkit,

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the racket literally is the tool.

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So I'll ask again, trying to get a yes or a no kind of an answer,

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which one is it?

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Do I go get a new racket for the game style

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or do I maybe adjust tension first

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and try to work on the game style

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before I go get the right?

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Yeah, that's a small addition.

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The already has a game.

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The already can hit a volley,

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but he likes to improve a little bit.

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I would look at whether he bombs out,

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like maybe athletically you're not in the right position

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and you could put more into the ball physically

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and then obviously it could be loosened or wrist,

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could be grip too thick.

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It could be a whole bunch of things

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before jumping the racket, right?

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We'll start with the coach and the technique.

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Of course, just bad at tennis.

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Let's pretend I'm okay with this.

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We've already gone through all that.

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Yeah, that's a small addition.

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If someone kind of being said,

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I need to be better at my slice

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and be better in defense

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and he'd be better at, man,

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I'm gonna come forward and wanna attack

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because all I do is hit big baseline shots

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and then four shots, it's in or out.

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I'd be like, okay, then let's maybe play

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with some different racket and see

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if that game helps with what you've got.

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So there, there's a whole bunch.

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I mean, I know we're coming up to 10, 10,

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but if there was one huge advice

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after being a tennis Australia,

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it's certified talent development coach.

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I was always in, you know,

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technophiles about it and come on,

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but I'm about to explain.

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There is a huge gap when a junior development

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between the 24 inch and the 26 inch.

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I would find a lot of graphite rackets

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and I would cut them down to 25

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to allow the junior to continue to develop their swing

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because two inches at that age is too far

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as far as I'm concerned.

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And it's too expensive for the guys to remodel

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and build another 25 in racket.

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But we've seen it in the 19 graphite

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because juniors were developing earlier

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instead of the aluminum.

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So that would be my biggest pitch

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about racket choices of juniors.

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I like it.

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Well, let's bring in our touro with technophiber

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and we will ask him that same question.

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And see what technophiber does to help

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and technophiber being the example.

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I know you and I just didn't have a lot of experience

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with Wilson, but in this case,

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we've got the technophiber expert that says,

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hey, here's what we have, here's what we're doing

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to get that I know.

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And I'll just jump with the example, Arturo.

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Do you guys have a graphite 25 inch racket

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that isn't over $100?

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- Well, it depends how much you want to sell it for.

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(laughing)

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We actually need different profit margin.

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We have two.

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We have the T-fight in the tempo.

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So both of those rackets coming 25 and 26 inches.

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In fact, we have a pre-strong tempo

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that is 26 and a half as well.

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But yes, we do under a hundred.

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Again, it just depends how much you,

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how much the pro wants to sell it for, that store.

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But it's possible.

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I mean, that one usually retails for like 109.

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So you're not too far off.

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I mean, oftentimes you can go to a store

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and find 10th, 20, 15% off on rackets.

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So I mean, you should be around a hundred bucks, though,

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to be honest.

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- Gotcha.

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- But what do you tell somebody and Justin and I

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have experienced this as everybody,

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especially if you're a parent, is,

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well, why don't I just go to Walmart and get the $15.25 inch racket?

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- Well, I will say, especially in the beginning,

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as juniors in all three of us have been coaches,

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some of you guys still coaching, I used to be.

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If we put a kid in a racket that is just a table experience,

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they are not going to, they're not like it to come back.

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Or they're gonna come back as like,

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once in a while, when the weather is 65 degrees

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and sunny and beautiful, right there,

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or the in-art amygdala or those seasonal players.

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If we want our kids to become, to tennis to become their sport,

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we've got to give them the tools for them to have that kids, adults,

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and obviously we're just talking about kids right now,

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but that always the same way it comes to a beginner, right?

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If you bring them in and say, hey, go to Walmart,

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dig sporting goods and just get a racket,

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often nine times out of 10,

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they're going to come back with the one racket.

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Because they just don't have that,

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I mean, I was just listening to you guys,

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on the podcast earlier from 10 on,

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and the coach is huge, right?

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Just having that relationship with a coach,

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so that he or she knows your game firsthand

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and he can help you develop that racket relationship, right?

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What do you need at the beginning?

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Maybe what you needed two years ago is not what you need anymore.

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And that's not just with high-performance juniors, right?

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You can talk about someone that I know,

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I taught a lot of beginners that made it all the way up

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to three, five, four, or level or even higher.

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Whatever racket I told them when they were beginning

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is not the same racket that I would tell them

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three, four years on the road

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when they were playing three, or three, five, four, or level.

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So your racket sometimes has to change

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if your game improves in all those sort of things,

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but a coach is the go-to person,

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that we're able to help you with that.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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And again, I also, obviously,

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I'm in the business of sending rackets and strings.

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You don't have to go get the most expensive

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pop of the line racket or string, even, right?

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And again, that's where the coach comes in.

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You don't have to let say someone is beginning,

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or look, I have eight-year-old kid,

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I have three kids, and my older is eight.

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Usually I wouldn't spend 150 bucks in a racket for him,

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because he's an eight-year-old boy.

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I mean, nothing lasts more than a few months in his hand.

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So, but you don't necessarily have to go with a 25 bucks racket

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that is going to be a terrible experience for him.

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Try to find a middle, maybe a second-hand racket.

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That's where the coach comes in.

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Maybe a racket that is discounted at the store

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after talking to your coach,

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because it's last year's model.

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It's still great.

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If it's full graph-bite, one piece racket at 25-inch,

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go for it, right?

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You don't have to go by the best racket

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I just came out yesterday, right?

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You don't have to.

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If you have the means, go for it, right?

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If you like that, and you can do it for your child,

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or for your own game,

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hey, better, better for me, right?

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But you don't have to do that.

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Not everyone wants to spend over 100 bucks for a kid racket,

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or wants to spend over 100 bucks for their first racket ever,

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right?

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If they are just beginning, they are ways

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that you can maneuver that and just sort of kind of go,

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again, the right coach comes into play a lot.

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And what do you think?

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We do a lot of technophyber.

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We do a racket exchange program with tennis for children,

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where if you bought a racket from us,

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we'll exchange a racket of similar value as your kid gets older,

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or as your kid gets better.

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What do you think about Justin's--

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he mentioned earlier about hunting off two inches of the--

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I assume you're cutting off the bottom, not the top.

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You know how two inches of the bottom of the handle

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to give them a full-size feel, but cut off

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those couple of inches that's clearly saving some money.

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Have you heard of them before, or are they new to me?

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I honestly have not.

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I have heard the opposite of making a racket longer,

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but Justin, you said you'd bring that to me

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because I wasn't sure if I got that, right?

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So you take that racket that is 27 inches

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and then cut it down to 25.

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Yeah, it'd be a bit of that graphite feel.

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Yeah, graphite has got better over years

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in junior development rackets, but--

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OK, back in the days for me, there

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was such a big gap between the 26 inch

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and the 24 inch development phase of the player is so huge.

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I would take an inch off the 26 inch and make it 25.

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OK.

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So there wasn't a huge gap in the style of racket,

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but that inch difference helped the development

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of the swing and kept going.

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Whereas when you add two inches to a hit

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and it developing harm, you start to see the shoulder

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and you start to see them over swing

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and moves that efficiency and technique.

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And so I used to cut down, like I said, a 26 to a 25--

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Gotcha.

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And once they showed the development of that,

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I moved to the 26.

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That's perfect.

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Honestly, to your point, Justin, we, for example,

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take the fire, we don't make graphite rackets below 25 inches.

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So if you're looking for someone that has

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the next up 23 inches, for example, my six-year-old,

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we don't have an option right now for him

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to have a full-side graphite racket.

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So what you said, maybe taking a 25 inch and cutting it down

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to 24, 23 for him, that's a great--

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I mean, that's awesome.

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I'm only to just come see you and cut off a 25 inch graphite.

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I don't trust myself to cut a racket.

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I don't trust myself to cut a racket.

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I trust--

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It's very simple.

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It's very simple.

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You take the butt off, grind it off to the size, put the butt back

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on, screw it in and regret it.

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But we've got to think about the kids' hands only so small, too.

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I'll be clean most of my kids with a single hand,

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so they didn't have to have too.

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But it really did help the development

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of allowing consistent technique cleaned,

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because two inches is a big jump.

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It is.

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At that age, it's huge, which is why I grew up

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with a full-sized racket and a doorbells.

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I mean, it is a miracle that I like tennis, right?

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It really is.

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Right.

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How many kids were lost because of that?

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There is still a massive argument that a kid should

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be in a 27 inch as soon as possible.

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There is, on the high performance level,

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I've spoken to many great coaches in Europe,

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and they're like, the sooner you can put him in a full size.

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And I'm like, great, well done, mate.

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You taught to the parents and that child at age 20 to 28

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with shoulder issues.

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Yes, yes.

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All the problems in the world, because he got to hit

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a little more power.

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Yeah, who can?

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To beat the best player.

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I mean, I've seen it over and over again.

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The injury issues in that age between 20 and 28

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that ruin a player's, that's the prime time.

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Yeah.

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There's a freaking eight to 12 years old.

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And you've got to put them in a bigger act because--

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Can we define as soon as possible?

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But let's make sure we agree on that, because as soon

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as possible, it has to include safety and long term

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considerations, right?

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High strength of the player, period.

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Then, if there's a very smart coach,

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he'd be actually trying to restrict it

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to allow the athletic base and the body to hit the ball

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this is the rack.

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We put it off as long as possible.

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Yes.

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Put it off as long as possible.

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Yes.

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I don't know if I'm right on that.

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But for some reason, I landed on that in intellectually

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for me as a human being.

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It made outside of the tennis coach.

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It just made sense.

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Put it off as long as possible.

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Also, you're saving the parents $250

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on their new TechnoFiber racket.

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Yes.

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Get them into the racket.

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But two of them--

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Two of them, because they've got to have one against it.

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We've got to have two against them.

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Yes.

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Now, for sure-- I mean, it's, again, the racket and the ball

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right, like I've seen many kids at six, seven-year-olds

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playing with regular balls.

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Or--

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Or, you know, we just have to delay that as long as possible.

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And he's two other things real quick on that.

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A dull racket is done and have grips thin enough.

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Yeah, for the kids.

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One is developed by not.

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Secondly, the bigger the racket, the more the grip comes around

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for once Western.

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So you've got to drag it behind themselves, yeah?

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I was like, what are you doing, man?

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Like you're trying to have a long turn game?

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Or just like be the best junior with a big junior racket?

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So, you know, I don't know.

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I can talk a lot of performance as much as you can do.

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The internal rotation of the shoulder joint,

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they are developed now where the racket is perpendicular

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to the ground.

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I can't hit that.

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When I was a kid, it was always across the table top.

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My shoulder can't get that far anymore.

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But the kids-- look, curious, his shoulder joint

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come way down.

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And by putting a two-big racket, there's just no way

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you can develop tools long-term to where the game is.

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So, racket is massive subject.

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Knowledge of a coach?

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Massive subject.

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Yes.

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I should know.

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And the racket, so they've got the right tool.

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Absolutely.

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Now, for sure, I mean, finding that right coach is so huge,

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right?

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But to that point, and I was just thinking

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about this earlier today, there are just too many Facebook

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groups out there that you don't have any excuse really to be like,

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well, I just don't have a coach.

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I go out there and find the information, talk to it

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other people that are maybe already high-kids,

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and don't just go and walk into a store with no knowledge,

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because it's possible that you end up with--

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and definitely don't walk to a Walmart target

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or Dick's Boarding Good looking for a tennis racket.

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If you do that, I mean, I cannot tell you just my next door neighbor

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just texted me over the weekend.

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And he said, do you have a racket for me?

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Because he started playing tennis like a year ago,

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and he went to Dick's Boarding Goods or whatever he went.

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And he said, every time I play, it's like this shaking

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throughout my body.

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Every time I hit the racket, it just shakes and rattles.

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And I just gave him a racket and he texted me a couple days ago.

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And he said, it's like the first time I played tennis.

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It was a different experience.

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And he saw-- and now he takes time to educate.

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And some people are just not used to that.

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But I'm like, dude, as long as you play tennis,

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I don't care.

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I gave him my whole racket.

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I was like, he's my racket.

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Just use it.

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If you don't like it, it's OK.

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I got other ones.

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Just please throw that other racket away.

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Just-- please.

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Do me a favor.

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And so, yeah, it's crazy how many people go through many years

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because they don't have a neighbor that

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seems to tennis, right?

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So it's hard to get more people to understand

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that it's a huge, huge part of playing tennis.

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Maybe the most important part is the right racket.

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To begin with, so.

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Yep.

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And I don't want to go too much on record right now,

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but please, I wish they would just disappear the aluminum

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racket.

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Yeah.

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I got it.

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Because it doesn't give them an experience.

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The racket is doing this in the hand.

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And we've seen it frame by frame that they're seeing twists

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and the kids never really develop.

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And as soon as they grab the right racket,

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they go, what the hell have I been doing?

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Yeah.

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So now it's crazy.

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And I can help.

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I can help.

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Sure on this one.

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This is a great story.

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Every time a parent says, wow, why would I put a $60

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graphite racket in the hand, right?

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Because you can get graphite rackets for about $60 if you look around.

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Maybe $80, but $60, $80.

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I turn to the guys and they say, well, tell you what,

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maybe if you sacrifice 10 to 12 days or no Starbucks,

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we can afford your child to graphite a racket, right?

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That's $100,000.

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They turn to me and go, what?

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Seriously, I'm like 10 to 12 days.

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What's the investment with your child or some coffee each day

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with sugar?

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I mean, come on.

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It'll help you diabetes.

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It'll help everything.

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That's really important.

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It'll help you waistline.

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And you're just actually putting something

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that better-- more benefit for your child.

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100%.

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100%.

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Same with your own racket, saying adults,

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like just when you think about it, yeah, I mean, $250.

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But again, you can go to your point just

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and $250 is kind of the going rate.

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You can probably make that closer to like 1 thing

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into 200 if you look around.

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So you can do that.

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And also when you think about giving up a coffee for a month,

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or for two weeks, it's not that big of a deal.

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I also like to-- with the guys, some of the guys I used to coach,

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and they played golf, and they were like,

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kind of, well, I don't want to spend $250 on the racket.

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It's like, how long?

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How many clubs do you have?

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But right now, golf clubs.

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And how much?

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You golf club is worth $2,000.

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And you don't want to give yourself one racket.

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I'm asking you for one racket.

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So-- but yeah, to your point, you're saying,

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if you break it down into-- just then I'm going to start work.

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Or don't eat out every weekend.

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Like, it's not even-- you can get there quite quickly.

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Yeah.

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And how far do you want to progress?

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And how soon do you want to get there?

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I mean, it's the American dream.

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They're quick.

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Come on, the meetings.

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Yes.

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Have the right tool.

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It's so simple.

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I mean, trust your coach and have the right to trust the coach

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in the volatile relationship.

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And if you don't have a coach, give me a call.

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I'll help you.

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I'll just say call.

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I'll go to the next call.

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Any of us will help you find somebody.

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The coach relationship, absolutely crucial on racket choice.

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And one quick funny story is I live in a billion dollar

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community.

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And I had a couple that came out to learn tennis

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and they wore past their court.

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And they bought $2, $30 of Walmart Rappets, $27.

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And they hit in a way.

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And I said, OK, hang on a sec.

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You used the Puerto Rico to save millions of dollars.

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And you want to buy $2, $30 of Walmart Rappets.

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I know.

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These guys, I want to tell you what company they are,

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but have a lot of coin.

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And they said, well, we weren't sure about the investment.

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We weren't sure how far we're going to invest in this.

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I was like, you're not going anywhere with those racket.

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But let's not-- let's give them a little grace.

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They had no idea.

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It wasn't as though--

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potentially, they weren't being cheap.

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They might have just not understood the difference.

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My theory behind it is, it doesn't matter how much you

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can afford.

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It's what people actually don't understand, the difference

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between--

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and I'm looking around it and those pressulous cheap balls

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versus regular $3-band balls to say about her,

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it's my elbow.

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And learning how to feel the ball with proper strings and everything.

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Anyway, it was only two months in that they finally said, OK, Justin,

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show me the difference with a graphite racket and the ball.

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So I took him out for a demo lesson.

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And they went from the early ordering $250 rackets each

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by lessons a week.

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And then all of a sudden I was like, wow, that's a big investment

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change.

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And they're like, no, we love this, it's like that guy,

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specifically, is now four years in lesson and is now 4.5

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player in the world.

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So I know--

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That's great.

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That's a great story.

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That's a great story.

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I always go back to those people as to, like, what do you

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want to have elbow and shoulder pain forever?

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Because you put the ball into a racket instead of 200 bucks.

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I mean, just think about what pain is--

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all of us, I'm sure, we've been injured.

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And it's like, when you have that injury and it's hard to sleep

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or hard to pick up your kids or hard to just get out of the car

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or get out of bed, like that--

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again, you can just invest just a little more.

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You don't have to go to the top of the line.

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Just a little more and avoid that.

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Same with the strings.

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Don't go and get a super stiff polling

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when you're a beginner or a kid or even someone that is playing--

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We can do this, right?

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Do something that, again, the coach is so key here, right?

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They're right-right.

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And the right coach, just until you're a point earlier,

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they're right grip size.

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And that could either be-- if it's too big,

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you can generate a spin.

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If it's too small, I give you 10-inch elbow,

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you have to really spend some time looking into that.

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And so, to your point, Justin, if they could--

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this allowed aluminum rack, especially--

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in this place, it's like, oh, my goodness.

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It would do so good for a game.

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It would do so good for a game.

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People will actually play more.

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So--

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Mike Borrell would kill me right now because he'd say,

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I want rackets in every kid's hands.

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So it doesn't matter what.

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Even or whatever.

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I've my theory on a performance perspective in long term

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for a kid that really wants you to get it right on the nail

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at the end of the experience.

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First experience is what keeps the kid going.

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And if you get the graphite bracket, like a 19-inch

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that Brabler designs-- I don't know about anyone else,

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but they were one of the first to make a 19-inch

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graphite racket.

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You get that in the kid's hand.

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They're never going to pick up an old racket again.

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Yeah.

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And knowing that, the earlier, the learning velocity,

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racket head speed, drive, power field,

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you just kind of compare the two.

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No.

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I'm actually going to go to a tagine fire

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and going to cut off some 25-inch racket.

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Make a bunch of 19, 21, and 23 rackets out of our stock.

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Yeah, cool.

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[LAUGHS]

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All right.

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Well, guys, I appreciate the time.

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And let's do it again sometime.

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Well, there you have it.

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We want to thank Rejovenate.com for use of the studio.

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And be sure to hit that follow button.

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For more tennis-related content, you

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can go to AtlantaTennisPodcast.com.

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And while you're there, check out our calendar of tennis events,

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the best deals on technophyber products,

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or just someone who wants to utilize our online shop,

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contact us about setting up your own shop collection

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World.

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And with that, we're out.

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See you next time.

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